For all of you debating trigger pull weights, customized pistols, barrel weights, RMX sights, etc, I have news for you. Get a good quality service pistol with NO "enhancements," and learn to shoot it. A standard pistol, multiple magazines, and a couple of thousand rounds will do more for your skills than any thousand dollar plus pistol. Does the trigger have creep? It doesn't "break like glass?" Life's a bitch, honey. Practice makes perfect. When you find a gun you can actually shoot, buy several copies. Practice with all of them. When you can consistently hit your target, buy more ammo and hit it more often. Practice until you can consistently hit in the 10 ring at 50 yards. Then you can whine about accessories.

I don't mean to be offensive, but, IMHO, I see far too much focus on equipment and far too little on basics. Practice to save a life, not to make "Grand Master." Chess champions don't get mugged. And operators ain't on gun forums.

Ha ha ha

Is this th beer talking?

You first.

Buying an expensive gun may not make me a great shooter, but it doesn't make me a worse one either. And what business is it of anyone else how I spend my money.

I bought a 2017 Stingray because I like it, but I drive it like a grand-ma. You don't like it? Suck it up butter cup.

Not sure quite where you're headed, fred, but this is a discussion forum, where people pursue something they're passionate about.

The application of a bone stock pistol for self defense, and a tuned or custom pistol, are separate topics that can sometimes intertwine but don't have to.

I think there is value in not spending a pile of money on a weapon, until you have become familiar and proficient with the standard model.

It is also true that you cannot buy skill or experience through equipment, only through actually doing something.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Buying an expensive gun may not make me a great shooter, but it doesn't make me a worse one either. And what business is it of anyone else how I spend my money.

I bought a 2017 Stingray because I like it, but I drive it like a grand-ma. You don't like it? Suck it up butter cup.

Now, there's a novel concept.
Man, as far as I'm concerned, I don't give a damn what folks do to mod their guns or how much they spent to do it, as long as they don't violate firearm safety rules. I may joke around about it, but in all seriousness, I DGAF, and I sure as hell won't take it upon myself to pontificate.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
Get a good quality service pistol with NO "enhancements," and learn to shoot it.

Ok. I did this for the first 10 yrs of my handgun shooting using 357 revolvers. That was 40 yrs ago.

Is it OK with you that I have my Gold Cup, 220, 226 & 629s worked on or should I just continue with my stock setups? (guess it's a little too late to ask)
Oh - forgot to mention that the Glocks I shoot in competition have been tweaked also. My bad.

50 yards? Are you kidding? I cannot see a target at 50 yards let alone hit the 10 ring. 50 feet, sure. 50 yards, not so much.

I can say that our federal agency (back in the day) went to Glynco federal leo training and shot one of several P-series Ruger 9mm pistols. Over those weeks, I easily shot 1000+ rounds. Two of us aced the pistol portion of the qualifying challenge.

I'm pretty certain these were well used training pistols and none had been sent to a gunsmith for particular action work. Ohhh...how I miss the P-93. I am WELL into shooting my G26 (4th gen) and getting pretty close to smitten with how I am shooting it...and I own WC and Les Baer.

I am very hesitant to modify my handguns by replacing springs and such because I have a lot of faith in the engineering of the handgun. (Probably too much faith.)
If I replace a spring with a weaker spring, it will increase pressures on the frame or component parts. Surely the engineers who designed the handgun balanced all of the forces in play during cycling. If not, my choice of brand was not wise. If I start farting with the components I, most likely, am doing harm to my gun.
I believe that Beretta and Sig design their handguns excellently.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Ha ha ha

That pretty much says it

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
Practice until you can consistently hit in the 10 ring at 50 yards.

Been there, done that, and I can't consistently do it. But since you must have such skills down pat, please show us how you drill the 10 ring on targets at 50 yards. And I mean a B-6 target, not a 1,000-yard F-class target. Better yet, post some video of how you cleaned up at the Bianchi cup.

Some of us actively compete and have done so for years. Pistols, shotguns, carbines, rifles. Tens upon tens of thousands of rounds. Slowly improving the processes of a controlled trigger press, maintaining sight alignment, follow through, and recoil management. Oh yeah, and dry fire, after dry fire, after dry fire.

Mikaela Shiffrin isn't winning world cup ski races with beginner rental skis.
Kyle Bush doesn't race with a stock Toyota Corolla.
Serena Williams doesn't play with her mother's old small-head wood racket.

Time after time, event after event, I've seen how much better a person performs with quality tools.

If your rant is one due to yet another year ending and time marching forward, I hope your bitterness doesn't carry into 2018. Carry on, caption oblivious.

fritz, in keeping with the thread theme, how do YOU feel about the SRT? Or is it moot because you only shoot tuned race pistols that cost $3000 and up and don't have a carry pistol?

(said with a normal voice, no snark)

For myself, I want all of mine to be the same. They came DA/SA factory, and I fear if I change one I'll need to change them all of might get screwed up that ONE time I need everything to work flawless. - but that's me)

EDIT, maybe nevermind, I thought I was on arcs SRT thread. What just happened and there was no beer involved. Coffee, no beer.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
If your rant is one due to yet another year ending and time marching forward, I hope your bitterness doesn't carry into 2018. Carry on, caption oblivious.

Y'all are probably wasting your time trying to impart clue to this guy. He posted the same kind of drivel to a thread I started. Then, after ignoring attempts by knowledgeable members to impart Clue to him, did it again, only with Extra Added Ass. (At which point he was roundly ignored, which is probably the most productive tactic.)

quote:

Originally posted by jimb888:
For myself, I want all of mine to be the same. They came DA/SA factory, and I fear if I change one I'll need to change them all of might get screwed up that ONE time I need everything to work flawless. - but that's me)

Different strokes and all.

Some people want all their firearms (of a type) to have the same MOA, ergos, etc. Others feel they should be able to pick up most anything, within reason, and shoot it competently. I've known both, IRL.

I'm merely "capable," in my own view (maybe less than that in the view of others), and, while I can appreciate the reasoning behind "all the same," I'm more inclined to go with variety, and practice with each, so each has a particular muscle memory associated with it. My reasoning is that different carry scenarios allow or demand different firearms. Out in the woods, in cool->cold weather, I can easily wear, and mostly conceal my FS P320 and a pair of loaded mags. When I go to the dentist's office I'm obliged to downsize to a mouse gun. And when I'm pin shooting for fun I want to knock down as many pins as fast as I can and am not interested in concealing anything.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ensigmatic,

I don't compete anymore and I never shot to 50 yards to begin with. 25 yards was max with any of my pistols.
Nowadays, it's out to 50 feet with the pistols. My pistols are all stock and I see no need to go out further for my purposes.
Last pistol I modified was a Beretta Brigadier, which was F'ing sweet, but I sold that to PGT.
If you're not paying for a firearm purchase for someone, they can pretty much do what they want.

The way I was taught:

Step 1- "Just grab the darn thing and shoot!" That was soft-speak for...

Step 2- "Let's see how you handle this."

Step 3- "Now let's see how we can fit it to you." This was the long part.

Admittedly, some did not require any fitting. Those were the rare exception. Which does not in any way imply that I was an exceptional shooter. It's just that some firearms were better suited for/to me. For instance, "Look at that! I still have five fingers on my right hand!"

quote:

Practice until you can consistently hit in the 10 ring at 50 yards. Then you can whine about accessories.

Nope. Then you put a New York trigger in your Glock, extra heavy hammer spring in your SIG, push the target out to 100, and shoot support hand only. Do it for real means to do it for real, no compromises.

quote:

Originally posted by jimb888:
fritz, in keeping with the thread theme, how do YOU feel about the SRT? Or is it moot because you only shoot tuned race pistols that cost $3000 and up and don't have a carry pistol?

Good question. I like the SRT -- it dramatically improves the Sig DA/SA action. However, I think Grayguns does a better action job, and thus my DA/SA Sigs have been tuned by Bruce and crew.

I'm not certain I have any race guns. Primarily based on how accurately I shoot them, and the trigger -- the best of my pistols are S&W 41, Sig 220 SA, and Wilson 9mm 1911. The Wilson 1911 is definitely up there in cost, but the others cost a boatload less than $3k.

I currently compete in rifle and carbine matches which have pistol stages here and there. For these pistol stages I use a Glock 17, modified with a Ghost trigger connector, grip angle change, and grip size reduction. I'm considering installing an aftermarket barrel to increase accuracy a bit, but I know my biggest accuracy issue with the Glock is me.

I'm considering using the 9mm 1911 in such competitions, but I'm concerned about magazine capacity. I am closely following offgrid's evaluation of a 9mm 2011 for competition use.

I've only carried two pistols -- a Sig P6 (with Grayguns action work) and a stock Kahr PM9.

I’m already the best shooter out of everyone I know with both stock and custom guns. I’m a firm believer that a good shooter is a good shooter regardless of what gun he uses. With that said shooting a pistol at 50 yards is fucking retarted and a waste of time. Get good at shooting at 10 yards with a accurate and consistent pace.