I know this has been discussed, but what are some reasons that .40 has fallen out of favor? I carry a .40 DAK 229 at work but only have 1 .40 pistol at home.

FBI went back to 9.

It was never in favor with me - never had a .40!

With modern defensive hollowpoints having similar effect on target among the two calibers, 9mm allows for less felt recoil, lower cost, and greater capacity.

Yep, did some reading and it boils down to

1. Price
2. Recoil
3. Capacity
4. Advances in 9mm

Sounds good to me, although I'll be keeping ny 229 in 40

Fads.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Fads.

That would only be true if 9mm ballistics had not improved over the last 25 years.

Snowflakes can't handle it

In all seriousness, I'm a .40 guy because I got into guns when .40 was taking off and every agency was switching which meant everybody interested in SD followed the wave. The leaps made in hollow-point technology have been astounding and the extra 9mm bullets are worth more than any minuscule advantage of the .40.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
With modern defensive hollowpoints having similar effect on target among the two calibers, 9mm allows for less felt recoil, lower cost, and greater capacity.

Pretty much this.

In the real world, they perform about the same.

I read about a test done on pig carcasses. Nobody could tell the difference between the 9mm and .40S&W wound tracks.

I know of several le dept.'s in washington and oregon have gone back to 9mm for the 4 or 5 reasons stated.

Although i will say one of the softest shooting guns i have shot was a hk usp 40.I dont know why,but i could shoot that gun like a 9mm.

When ruger starts producing there pc 40 carbine,i will get a 40 for my bedside gun.I already have the 9mm i the ruger,and it is sweet.

.40 was never good. It was a compromise from the beginning. It has been surpassed by all of the calibers it meant to supplant.

I thought the .40S&W just came about because the 10mm proved too recoil-prone for delicate FBI shooters to control. Its shorter size also permitted using it in smaller pistols. It suffered the dual disadvantages of being larger than the 9mm and less powerful than the .45ACP--it was, at best, a compromise.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by sjp:
Yep, did some reading and it boils down to

1. Price
2. Recoil
3. Capacity
4. Advances in 9mm

Sounds good to me, although I'll be keeping ny 229 in 40

Could someone explain to me #4?
I'm not singling out sjp, but I hear this more and more about 9mm "advancement."
What is it about 9mm advancement that isn't being seen in .380,.38,.357 mag/sig, .40, and .45?
I'm guessing no one would recommend the older 9mm loads. But the "9mm advancement" theory seems to indicate ignoring all other caliber loads too because they in turn have not "advanced" in technology.
What am I missing?

ETA:
And just to explain why #4, to me, is the only one that matters,
1. Price (Yeah, millions of round being bought by gov. Not a problem for me)
2. Recoil (I don't mind it. Some in gov. might.)
3. Capacity (I don't consider 15 vs 17 rounds that big of a deal.)
These are all gov. issues.
Which leaves us w/ the all important potency of this (only) 9mm round.

Nice thing about it falling out somewhat is .40 cal pistols and ammo are getting dirt cheap!
Just picked up a nice P229 for $400!
Thanks 9mm fans!

quote:

Originally posted by dsiets:

quote:

Originally posted by sjp:
Yep, did some reading and it boils down to

1. Price
2. Recoil
3. Capacity
4. Advances in 9mm

Sounds good to me, although I'll be keeping ny 229 in 40

Could someone explain to me #4?
I'm not singling out sjp, but I hear this more and more about 9mm "advancement."
What is it about 9mm advancement that isn't being seen in .380,.38,.357 mag/sig, .40, and .45?
I'm guessing no one would recommend the older 9mm loads. But the "9mm advancement" theory seems to indicate ignoring all other caliber loads too because they in turn have not "advanced" in technology.
What am I missing?

ETA:
And just to explain why #4, to me, is the only one that matters,
1. Price (Yeah, millions of round being bought by gov. Not a problem for me)
2. Recoil (I don't mind it. Some in gov. might.)
3. Capacity (I don't consider 15 vs 17 rounds that big of a deal.)
These are all gov. issues.
Which leaves us w/ the all important potency of this (only) 9mm round.

Advances in JHP design, like Gold Dots and HST, have improved the performance of all rounds, but 9mm got the biggest boost in improvement. Modern JHP loads in service calibers all perform pretty much the same. Any theoretical differences in performance are insignificant in application.

While older 9mm rounds wouldn't be my first choice, I would consider ones with good track records, like the Federal 115gr 9BPLE +P+, acceptable if I couldn't get HST or Gold Dot.

quote:

Advances in JHP design, like Gold Dots and HST, have improved the performance of all rounds, but 9mm got the biggest boost in improvement.

I guess I'm just curious as to why that is.
Generally, newer cartridges like .40 and .357 sig shouldn't suffer like older designs in modern guns.
I use Gold dots and HST in my .40's and .357 sig.
Have we reached the culmination of these designs and thats how they will forever be? Or is more developement coming for the other calibers?
Or is this dependent on .gov and it's requirements?
Why bother developing better .40 when big brother wants to buy 9mm.

The terminal effects of the various service cartridges are quite similar, as is the muzzle energy; there really isn't much difference.

While there have been some improvements in 9X19 technology, they're not quantum leaps by any means, and velocity and bullet weight hasn't changed much; shot effectiveness is all about placement, not nearly so much about expansion, etc. In fact, penetration is more important.

9X19 has improved; the same technology and the same powders and the same bullets and bullet designs that have advanced 9X19 have also advanced .40 and .45 acp. 9X19 has not somehow leapt ahead in advancements the other cartridges do not see; they've all been developed, and when a new design comes out, it comes out in all the chamberings.

9X19 offers higher capacity, reduced recoil, reduced time between shots, lighter weight, smaller frames, etc. The advantage over .40 in those areas is small; most pistols use the same size frame for 9mm and .40. They're the same weight. .40 capacity is a few rounds less, but typically only 2-3 less. Recoil is greater with the .40, but not appreciably so; with lighter frames, however, the recoil is accented.

I own a number of .40 pistols. Some carry .357 Sig barrels right now, and I do prefer the .357 Sig, but it's very hard to argue against the merits of 9X19.

.40 was available when 9mm couldn't hardly be found. It's not much more expensive than 9mm. It feeds reliably, and has a good track record in shootings.

There's the visceral satisfaction of seeing a 9mm shell casing disappear inside a .40 casing. Doesn't mean a lot, but at a minimum the .40 makes me feel like I'm shooting something extra. Not much, but it's a warm-fuzzy all the same.

Others noted, there are numerous surplus .40 handguns presently that make it a great choice, and many of those can also be run on 9mm, too. It's versatile, and a lot of the .40 pistols out there can easily be converted with little expense or trouble to .357 Sig, offering more again.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
With modern defensive hollowpoints having similar effect on target among the two calibers, 9mm allows for less felt recoil, lower cost, and greater capacity.

This is it very succintly.

-----------------------

I love the 9 but I think a good 40 cal HST 165 or 180 gr or maybe Gold Dot will take the wind out of the 285 pound gang banger ,no neck guy faster . But I know placement is what counts .

quote:

Originally posted by henryarnaud:
While older 9mm rounds wouldn't be my first choice, I would consider ones with good track records, like the Federal 115gr 9BPLE +P+, acceptable if I couldn't get HST or Gold Dot.

My memory isn't too good on this but were the 2 authors in the study years ago that lauded the 9BPLE (among others such as .357 125-gr JHP) for street performance later discredited based on their controversial methodologies?