SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Ammunition    What JHP in .45 ?
Page 1 2 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
What JHP in .45 ? Login/Join 
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted
What are some of y’all’s favorites for defensive .45 jhp? Weight and brand please.


"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 6604 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
My two go-to JHPs in .45 ACP are Speer Gold Dot 230 grain and Federal HST 230 grain.
 
Posts: 29649 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted Hide Post
Good deal, I appreciate that. Can the +P versions be anything but an improvement when using a short barreled Glock 30?


"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 6604 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Experienced Slacker
posted Hide Post
Hornady 230gr. XTP is my preference.
 
Posts: 7078 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by apprentice:
Hornady 230gr. XTP is my preference.


Thanks


"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 6604 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of giz55792
posted Hide Post
230gr. Winchester Ranger
 
Posts: 709 | Location: Virginia, MN | Registered: October 01, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by giz55792:
230gr. Winchester Ranger


Excellent, but unobtainable except on GB best as I can tell. Frown


"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 6604 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
You might want to confirm by seeing if there are any gelatin tests on the ’net, but a common complaint about short-barreled pistols chambered for 45 ACP used to be that their slower velocities resulted in poorer bullet expansion. Poor expansion is something I’ve noted several times in tests of low velocity loads in other cartridges. For 99% of us it will never matter in any practical way, but if we’re ever in the tiny fraction for which it will, it will. Based on the velocity (~1060 fps) I got from a P220, I was always impressed with the Speer 200 grain +P Gold Dot load and its nearly 500 foot-pounds of energy from that gun.




7/93
 
Posts: 46088 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted Hide Post
^^ Thank you for that sir. I have actually been scouring YouTube for gelatin videos. Good idea. My thinking with the +P loads was exactly for what you brought up. The Glock 30 with its 3.7” barrel doesn’t have a whole hell of a lot to work with. Would seem that the extra power would help make up for the short barrel.


"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 6604 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I usually use 230 grain whatever.

Now I am usually shooting it out of my HK USP, Smith and Wesson MP or P220 DAK.

My go to is Federal Classic in 230 grain but I also have Remington and Winchester.

I tried 185 grain and found them to snappy for my taste.

I did like the 200 grain and Federal has a 210 grain JHP I would like to try.

I used to shoot a lot of Georgia Arms ammo (38, 9mm, 40) and even tried their 230+ JHP. I that is one round I just did not care for.

Here is an article from earlier in the year:
Pretty enjoyable read which tested 3 different rounds using three different barrel lengths.

https://www.shootingillustrate...t-45-acp-ballistics/


I know Speer makes the Gold Dot Short Barrel Personal Protection 45 Auto, but I have never shot it so I cannot/will not recommend it. I am fairly new to Speer. Way way way back in the day as I was leaving our Sheriffs Office, they dropped Remington and went to Speer for our P229's chambered in .40. I also bought over 1000rounds in 357sig when I went to work for the Department near Quantico, VA. (They switched from either Sig 2022 or 2340 in .357sig to Glock 21's. (Blasphemy)).
 
Posts: 1808 | Location: In NC trying to get back to VA | Registered: March 03, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted Hide Post
^^ Good info, thank you!


"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 6604 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
posted Hide Post
In ball it's 230s. JHPs I load Montana Gold 185s. No particular reason, just got a good deal on a few thousand of them. I don't notice much of a difference in the two.


________________________________________________________
"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
 
Posts: 18126 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Uppity Helot
posted Hide Post
I am still sorting out what I would want for my full sized .45’s. Probably will ultimately be 230 grain Gold Dots or HST.

In my compact .45’s or my Kimber Pro Carry II which has an alloy frame, I like the 185 grain Silvertip.

My Stoeger Cougar 8045 (alloy frame) is on home defense duty and is stoked with the Silvertips.
 
Posts: 2767 | Location: Manheim, PA | Registered: September 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of 4MUL8R
posted Hide Post
https://youtu.be/GI_fOpndtdY

There are several similar videos.


BMW K1600GT Pilot
 
Posts: 4409 | Location: Commonwealth of Virginia | Registered: January 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted Hide Post
Thanks fellas


"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 6604 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Several years ago I invited several departments to my range to do a duty ammo comparison with the Federal/ATK L.E. rep.

Our department was using Gold Dot at the time in Glock 21's and 36's. He was using the relatively new HST. One department was using Win. Ranger and one was still using Hydra Shocks.

The rep tested our rounds against the HST's using FBI test protocols with light clothing, heavy clothing, drywall, steel and auto glass.

Rounds were chronographed, recovered from gelatin, weighed and expansion measured. The chronograph stopped working almost immediately so we did not get all of the rounds chrono'd.

We did see that the Ranger(.40s&w) shed its jacket in everything but the clothing. The Gold Dot performed well against the glass and steel, at least weight retention wise. The HST kept its jacket in all media and expanded beautifully. I used my Colt Defender (3 inch barrel) and the rounds still expanded to .895 caliber. The Plus P did not show any better that I could see although we did switch to it for or duty ammo afterwards. Also saw that the 9mm 147 grain HST was a beast of a 9mm.

The rep labeled each round and made a display/sample board and gave it to me. I still have it if would like to see any specific data from it.

edited to correct .45 expanded measurement. it was not .96

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Marcushoss,


Yeah, I used to have a couple of guns.
 
Posts: 414 | Location: North Central Ohio | Registered: February 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted Hide Post
^^ Very interesting, thank you for posting that. I’d love to see any of the data you have. My email is in my profile if it’s something difficult to post for some reason. I find ballistic info really interesting. I think I’ve seen most every gelatin test on YouTube and always like reading about the subject.


"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 6604 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
This is a somewhat long post that will be of no interest to those who know all they need to know about handgun projectile effectiveness. But I go to the trouble of discussing a commonly overlooked topic for the benefit of those who think that they might still have something to learn, or are at least willing to consider other views.

One issue that’s almost always ignored in discussions of the performance of various bullets in gelatin or other media tests is the kinetic energy of the projectile.

For many years after hollow point bullets in handgun cartridges were introduced, there was a lot of uncertainty and debate about their designs and effectiveness. Because so many autoloading handguns were originally designed to chamber only round nose FMJ bullets reliably, more emphasis was placed on designs like the Federal 9BPLE bullet that have small hollow points and ogives that closely match FMJ styles. There were early efforts to evaluate the theoretical effectiveness of hollow point bullets and loads, but they were often partially flawed and usually produced unpopular results, thereby limiting their value.

After the disastrous attempt by the FBI to arrest two murderous bank robbers in 1986, though, suddenly penetration became important as well—in fact the most important thing.

I’m not an ammunition designer or manufacturer insider, but it’s been pretty obvious to me that ever since then the emphasis has been on bullet penetration. Many YouTube “authorities” will reject a particular load as totally unsuitable if it doesn’t penetrate an arbitrary distance into a test medium, and even more bizarrely, if it penetrates “too far.” Again, though, almost everyone focuses on just penetration depth and to a lesser degree, expansion. (I say “lesser extent” because expansion figures are obviously limited to the final size of the bullets, not what size the bullet may reach while passing through tissue. Further, it’s hardly ever pointed out that the final size of a 0.355 caliber bullet cannot be expected to be as large as one that starts at 0.451" in diameter. So we just don’t worry much about expansion as long it’s enough to keep the bullet inside an 18 inch test medium block.)

What the emphasis on penetration and to a lesser degree expansion has evidently resulted in is the development of defensive handgun bullets that first and foremost penetrate to the degree that the FBI arbitrarily decided was satisfactory (without looking it up, I believe that was at least 12 inches and no more than 18). How a bullet managed to do that was really immaterial, and there’s the rub because many different bullets have been designed to meet that penetration “standard.” But is there a difference between a 0.355" 125 grain bullet that hits at 1320 feet per second and a 147 grain bullet of the same diameter that hits at 1000 feet per second? If their jackets and cores can be designed so both penetrate to 14 inches in gelatin, then they will have the same effect on someone whose inappropriate actions we are trying to stop, right?

What we must consider in answering that question is the difference in the energy the two bullets transfer to the target when they hit it. Our example 125 grain bullet has a kinetic energy of about 484 foot-pounds, whereas the 147 grain bullet has about 326. The 125’s energy is therefore almost 50 percent more, and more energy, more effects. Would there be a difference in the effects on an attacker if a feeble old guy like me punched him in the face or if a modern day Mike Tyson did? Most of us would say that there would of course be a difference. I have no idea how much difference in energy there would be or exactly what difference it would make in the other guy’s subsequent actions, but a difference? Of course, even if it were nothing more than, “Maybe this wasn’t such a good idea.”

An example of an old bullet and load is the Federal 125 grain “Classic” (“Personal Protection” now—?) in 357 Magnum. The bullet has a lot of exposed lead and a gaping hollow point. From a common 4 inch barrel that load has a muzzle velocity of about 1440 feet per second and generates nearly 600(!) foot-pounds of energy. Despite the fact that it doesn’t penetrate enough in test media to satisfy many people today, in the days when almost all LEOs were armed with revolvers, it established the reputation of being at the top of the list among aggression stoppers.

As a final point, the objection to the “power matters” argument is the never-dying claim that only damage to the body’s vital structures governs how effective a bullet will be in neutralizing a threat. That is, if two bullets penetrate to the same distance and expand to more or less similar diameters, then they will be equally effective in stopping threats. I disagree with the last, but this post is long enough already and I’ll just leave it at that by saying that if I’m ever shot, I hope it’s by someone who believes that low powered bullets are just as good as high powered bullets.




7/93
 
Posts: 46088 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted Hide Post
Thank for that Sigfreund.


"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 6604 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Dry-fly,
I emailed you some pics of the Bullet Board. Each Pic has all of the collected data including Media, depth of penetration, recovered weight and diameter. Let me know if you need anything else.


Yeah, I used to have a couple of guns.
 
Posts: 414 | Location: North Central Ohio | Registered: February 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Ammunition    What JHP in .45 ?

© SIGforum 2022