quote:

Note the last picture of the Surefire Cease & Desist.

Hahaha. His comments in the product description are amusing. Again, I still don't understand why someone would invest in that, as opposed to getting a different device installed on their rifle.

I need to get a damn brake for my OCM5, but it hasn't been a priority. One day.

The HUB thing is about versatility; sometimes that's a synonym for fickleness. If you're dedicated to the rifle, put the muzzle device on it that best suits your silencer. If you're dedicated to the clone game, get a RC2. If you're not dedicated to anything, and you're worried about hurting the resale of your SF P/W upper, then get a Otter Creek ShoreFyre.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
The HUB thing is about versatility; sometimes that's a synonym for fickleness.

I mean... sometimes.

To that end, I'm going to be in the Griffin taper mount ecosystem and because my patience got tested and found lacking, I also have a Hub can in jail, sitting next to the Griffin can. So I can either have some taper mount muzzle devices on some rifles and use the Griffin on those and go with other mounts on other rifles and use the Otter Creek, or... I can put taper mounts on all of them and use the Hub to taper mount adapter sitting under my monitor as I type this, and use either can on any rifle.

I agree, it's extra screwing around and just changing the muzzle device works. In Jon's case, with him having many rifles, likely all with Surefire mounts, I can see the route of just getting a Surefire to Hub adapter to try some Hub cans being less hassle in the long run.

I am unsure of the surefire intellectual property situation. But it can be either worked around or licensed as is shown by the fact that B&T now offers surefire compatible suppressors.
For myself as P220Smudge hypothesizes I have a massive number of surefire muzzle devices. And in reality I am a very satisfied surefire user (I have lots and lots of their stuff and lots and lots of rounds) so all HUB would do is offer the option to try something else on a variety of guns. If I was committing to a new suppressor I have no issue in changing a muzzle device. I deal with that problem already since I run Thunderbeast on precision stuff with its own muzzle device. I just like the idea that one can get out of this nonsense we have of 55 different flavors of attachment and have some easy way to convert between attachment systems.

After some shooting yesterday, my RC2 was a little bit difficult to remove. Nothing I haven't already experienced, and nothing a little firmer grip and extra effort couldn't overcome, but something worth mentioning. People talk about shooting the silencers off the gun, if they become stuck. My experiences have me of the opinion that it's more likely that you'll be defeated by a stuck collar; you can't shoot the thing off if you can't undo the collar. Regular maintenance is important. I had admittedly let mine go a bit; the collar had been feeling a bit sticky, and I didn't clean it.

The Warden in the orange image in this article appears to suffer the same fault as mine. That thing ain't in-line with the contour of the handguard.

https://fragoutmag.com/shot-show-2024-holosun-raid/

I contacted Surefire, and got a return label for the Warden. I described the symptoms, and they didn't have anything to say about it. So, we'll see if they have something to say, once they evaluate it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KSGM,

Ok B&T revamped their website and lo and behold the surefire compatible models use a surefire compatible HUB adapter! WTF. I don't know if they can or will sell it separately but I would think they would need to since you can buy their cans in other configurations.

Another surefire item. I have never shot the can off the gun I'd only seen it on video. But today I got to look at a surefire that had been shot off the gun due to its new owners stupidity. Went down range onto a concrete floor. If you looked carefully you could see a scrape right on the edge where the end cap and the tube met. Like less damage than I would do on a trip through a COF with barricades. Was modestly impressive. Note however surefire now says don't do that.

OK another one for this thread. B&T says you can buy the hub for $355 (availability unknown). So that's less than chopping up a trainer or BFA.

If I had to bet on it, I'd wager that the B&T stuff might not be available for a little while. I asked my LGS about B&T stuff a few days ago; none of the new models are represented at the distributor level right now.

If I had the cheddar, I'd get one of the new B&T cans (comes with the SF mount) and then buy one of their, likely more available/affordable, A2 mounts. Then you end up with everything. However, I think I still ultimately prefer a welded silencer. The new B&T is slick though, in that they provide two end caps: one to enable RBS and one to eliminate it. Between that and the HUB threading, it is certainly versatile. They were touting a competitive price at the shot show, so we'll see what happens.

To tether this post more firmly to the original intent of the thread, I will add that I really don't know what to think about the SF mount. The more I use it, the more it seems quite average. The maintenance required is a bit annoying, and the blowby out the back is more annoying still.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KSGM,

According to B&T this can is available for your dealer to order. I reached out to mine but haven't heard if they are actually can yet.
I don't think the surefire mount is anything special for the kind of use we put it in. But it is only one of a few that has survived the socom testing cycle, which I think is its greatest attribute. The problem is to get one of their cans (which I think are quite good in there space) your stuck with there mount and what ever its plus and minus's are.

quote:

only one of a few that has survived the socom testing cycle

It seems to be quite difficult to determine what silencers have and haven't passed the SOCOM test, without industry insider knowledge.

a few people provide the information publicly but unless you are inside I would guess you really don't know for sure even with that. But what interests me in this conversion about mounts is the discussing over at Thunderbeast that they have had to design a specific mount to get it to pass. And the normal TB mount will not pass (and it looks to me from a design point like 80% of the other mounting systems). Take a look.

Another thing about the B&T offerings:

They boasted at ShotShow of competitive prices. However, if they're only selling their new cans with the SF mount in the back (and not including a device), the customer is immediately on-the-hook for a SF muzzle device. Suddenly the competitive price just got $150 less competitive.

They'll likely sell the SF interface on it's own just fine. They'd be ahead to sell the cans with the A2 interface; I suspect their agreement with Surefire dictates that this not be the case.

I have no idea how good the B&T can is. I have a bunch of their cans in pistol calibers and they are competent but certainly not outstanding IMO. But the suggested price is $900. So actual will be below that I would think. And B&T sells a SF compatible muzzle device for half of a SF one. I don't know the market on these 5.56 cans as you know I run surefire, but I would guess at $1000 its likely on the high end of the spectrum, till you add the $450 to get the SF HUB to put your other choice on another can.

I swear they were saying $700ish, in the ShotShow coverage I saw; I could be wrong. Or maybe that was without a mount interface. I didn't know they sell a SF muzzle device of their own; that's cool. A quick look at their site seems to imply they range from $125 to $145; not much cheaper than a Surefire.

https://bt-parts.com/accessories/muzzle-devices/

More in keeping with the thread's intent: I recently swapped the barrel in my rifle to a 12" on mid gas. I figured I'd try the Socom556 Mini on it. It's not too bad. It's more "boomy". It certainly doesn't tame the muzzle report as much, but it's only a tad bit louder as the shooter. You can hear the initial boom and then the echo of the muzzle report, but it's going away from you, I suppose, so it's not much perceived added volume at your ear. I am going to use it for a while.

I got the price directly from B&T in an email exchange about availability. But the way it was stated was not very definitive, so maybe they are still discussing it. That of course is MAP so probably less in real life. How much, who knows, some of the B&T stuff is really cheap in the retail channel. But who knows that till they hit the dealers. The muzzle device price was from a dealer not direct its currently $85 so cheaper than the $152 I've been paying to get 3 prongs for my RC3.
I've been considering a 5.56 mini maybe update after some use. On paper according to surefire you give up nothing relative to an RC2, which seems odd to me.
I have a 7.62 mini and its really useless.

quote:

I've been considering a 5.56 mini maybe update after some use. On paper according to surefire you give up nothing relative to an RC2, which seems odd to me.
I have a 7.62 mini and its really useless.

The mini may be comparable to the RC2 on something like a 16" or longer barrel. It is certainly NOT even arguably close on something shorter. I agree with you, concerning the 7.62 mini, when shot on a 7.62x51. I got mine to use on a Sig 553R in 7.62x39, and I hope it'll be a good performer on that host. I haven't tried it yet, as I haven't been able to justify the muzzle device yet; the 553R is more of a novelty gun for me, and therefore not a priority.

On the B&T silencers: My LGS said they're designated as "coming soon" at the distributor level, and MSRP is $675; MAP of $650. That being said, if you're friendly with your "crack dealer", you could likely get into one for around $600. That's with the SF interface, but no device, as far as I can tell. Seems like a good buy. Given that the SF interface alone is listed at $405 on the B&T site, it's an absolute no-brainer to get the can for another couple hundred. Just ask your dealer if you can take the mount home, while the can clears.

Good idea on the mount. its not a serialized part so I wouldn't think my dealer would have an issue. I am still a bit unsure on the pricing as your dealers numbers differ from what B&T USA told me by a lot. In any case its a no brainer to order the whole thing when that becomes possible.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hrcjon,

I called SF on Tuesday, in regard to my Warden RMA. It had been almost three weeks. They said the system showed a replacement being authorized, and they expected a batch this week. They said I'll get an email upon shipment. So, they did acknowledge the flaw; I look forward to mounting the replacement.

Got the email with the tracking number. Should be here Thursday.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KSGM,

Another Surefire note: Since I have been using the mini, I have noticed no blowby out the back of the can. It is a snugger fit on the muzzle device than my RC2. The RC2 I can just dump off the gun, after undoing the latch; the mini requires a pull. This mini is an older-production unit; it lacks the little "teeth" around the circumference of the muzzle end.