I like surefire for a variety of reasons, and I've been treated very well in actual use performance and durability. And it may very well be that the new generation of 3d printed options have passed the traditional surefire design (and lots of others), but in every possible test across the board they are always near the top third in whatever criteria. In the Pew MK18 test list there are like 35 tests and the RC2 is 3rd in sound performance. I don't know why anyone should expect the mini version of anything to do well sound wise on a high pressure modern center fire cartridge. Are there any that do?

I might be expecting too much of the mini, but I figured subsonic would be easy-enough to handle. I don't shoot much .30 caliber, other than 7.62x51 out of my AR10, and my general cartridge knowledge is admittedly minimal. Surely 7.62x39 is easier to tame than x51.

Considering my experiences with different silencers lately, my opinion of Surefire offerings holds firm. I don't hate them, I just think there are better options at lower price points.

My SOCOM minis work just fine. This spring I've shot a mini on an AR15 Rock River with a 24" Doublestar rifle-length gas barrel. If there's a poster child for an over-gassed system, this may be it -- the barrel should be rifle length +2 inches, even without a suppressor. But I have no cycling issues. Brass lands in a neat pile 6 feet away at 2 o'clock. No gas in my face. Accuracy at distance is quite good, and it rivals what occurs with quality bolt actions. Noise reduction is fine. This can has outlasted a couple of barrels.

There will always be new developments in suppressor manufacturing. Methods and materials will change, improvements will occur. Some improvements will be incremental, and others will be more significant. For now, my Surefire cans work just fine.

My Surefire cans "work just fine" too. I have been presented with comparative circumstances lately that have given me the impression that they don't perform as well as silencers made by other brands. I'd even say that it's very likely that you can get something shorter, lighter, and quieter, for hundreds of dollars less than a Surefire.

Silencer performance is very subjective, and it's quite difficult for the average guy to do true comparative "testing". Compared to the different silencers I've been fiddling with lately, to my ears, the Surefires are not great.

There's one thing that is especially difficult to test: the durability or longevity. The ruggedness is an oft-touted performance aspect of the Surefires. As a civilian shooter and "prepared citizen", I am inclined to prioritize other performance aspects.

I think LE/Mil would do well to prioritize other performance aspects too.

I think the bottom line is the crux of the OP. This is why the Surefire silencers are sometimes controversial: You pay a high-performance price for an average-performance silencer.

The mount would sway me more to the positive side if my RC2 didn't barf so much crud out the back.

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So I have joined the "shoot 'em off" club. I put between 75 and 100 rounds of Wolf 123gr FMJ though the Sig 553R, using the SOCOM762 mini. Afterwards, the locking ring would move to unlocked position, but the can wouldn't come off the gun.

I tied a piece of orange ribbon around the can, loaded one round, aimed it in a safe direction, and fired. The silencer popped off, and went about 10 yards downrange. I intentionally picked a grassy spot, so no damage was incurred.

Shooting it off works.

Very astute to tie on a tracking ribbon. If it helps for the future I watched one get launched onto a concrete floor and there was no sign of any damage...

In this video, the narrator postulates that, between too-hot-to-handle temperatures and carbon-locking, no silencer is really "QD"; but merely quick-attach. He then discusses the perks of direct-thread attachment.

I argue that the Surefire silencers are indeed QD. Cans like the Knights NT4 and QDC as well. Perhaps even the Griffin M4SD. As I have suggested before, any silencer that doesn't require a threading or twisting of the silencer body, relative to the muzzle device, has true QD potential.

If there is not a carbon locking issue, the silencer can be dumped or shaken off the muzzle. The heat issue is mitigated by the very minimal required handling of the latch components. If there is a seizure of sorts, the latch can be undone, and the silencer can be removed by firing the weapon. What utility true QD provides is still a question worth further discussion.

maybe I missed it somewhere but i have not seen any mention of suppressor covers to deal with handling a hot suppressor.

Do any of you more experienced people use them?

The potential drawbacks I can imagine would be that much more weight at the end of the barrel (see=ms pretty minimal) and interference with optics (also seems easily fixed with a higher mount if it is even an issue at all).

We have discussed covers elsewhere in the suppressed weapons forum; we never did come to any real conclusions.

They trap heat. Manta (a brand-name associated with effective silicone silencer covers) suggests no more than 100 rounds rapid fire; 50 rounds if the can is titanium. They keep the heat in. This is good when the can comes in physical contact with the user; it's also good for reducing heat signatures. It's bad for the silencer, for obvious reasons.

The last time I shot with someone using a cover, I had to go back to the site another day, to recover it for him. It was a night shoot, and the cover came off the silencer.

I have a Manta cover. It looks weird and is heavier than cloth-type covers. Supposedly the Manta covers are good, but I don't care to employ it. My silencer has a titanium tube; that combined with the weight, bulk, and looks keeps my interest minimal.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've had a hot silencer give me an ouchy. I need more than couple hands to count the times a hot can has presented an administrative annoyance, but those instances being administrative takes their edge off.

first covers suck. second they actually also get hot. I keep a welding glove when I need to actually grab a hot suppressor. I struggle to think of a need to actually grab a fully hot suppressor even in a CF.

I saw someone suggest silicone curling iron covers as a quick and dirty "get home" solution for the administrative annoyance of waiting for cans to cool down. I bought a three pack for $6 on Amazon and I've used them to remove hot cans, but I haven't found a need to trap the heat in and just put everything in a case yet. Maybe eventually.

As for true quick detach and whether that's a need or even a useful thing goes, I'm sure there's a scenario. I'm also fairly confident it'll be sometime before I encounter it.

Thanks for the responses and practical real world experience. I am pretty new to suppressors. I have a couple of pistol suppressors but just bought one for a PCC and another for a 5.56 AR. I have not shot either yet. My question was prompted by shooting with a friend a few months ago who had a cover on his supressed Tavor and by brushing my leg against a hot motorcycle exhaust pipe many years ago. Still have that scar. Glove - and being more careful - seems to be the better answer.

quote:

Originally posted by kho:
The potential drawbacks I can imagine would be that much more weight at the end of the barrel (seems pretty minimal) and interference with optics (also seems easily fixed with a higher mount if it is even an issue at all).

I generally don't use a cover with my Surefire Socom cans. I have a few covers which I acquired in matches, but they just don't have the fit I want. The locking ring on the Socom cans makes them a little different.

I always have covers on my Thunderbeast cans, made by FTW/Rifles Only. Primarily for my bolt action rifles, but also my precision gas guns. The reasons are mainly from competition use:
- With squads of 10-15 shooters in the larger matches, there are a lot of rifles lined up next to each other at stages. Many people shoot with cans. It's almost inevitable that someone brushes up against a rifle or three sometime during a match. Can covers reduce the risk of skin burns & singed clothing.

- I shoot in the western mountains, high plains, & prairies. We have dry vegetation for all but a couple months of the year. Staged rifles have a high chance of being right on tall, dry grass. Nobody in a match wants to be "that guy", who started a fire with his suppressor.

- Precision bolt action rifles generally have long barrels. 22-24 inches for most steel matches, 26-28 inches for ELR. Most of us carry our rifles muzzle down -- muzzle safety, improved ability to walk under trees, and to eliminate the possibility of carbon flakes from the can travelling down the barrel & into the chamber or trigger. Add a can to the long barrel, and all but the tallest of people's suppressors might touch the ground when walking. This is especially true in the hilly field matches that I've attended in New Mexico and Wyoming. A suppressor cover eliminates the almost inevitable dings on cans when we maneuver through boulders on the trails between stages.

- Quality suppressor covers have retention devices which prevent the cover from being blown forward off the suppressor. Experienced shooters know how to use them.

I don't find that the weight of a suppressor cover changes the POI of my rifles.

My scope mounts are high enough that I don't experience shadowing from the suppressor cover.

My LGS got another RC2 in stock. He didn't have one for a long time, because he sat on the last one for so long (I bought it).

$1200 for the silencer, and he has three-prong hiders at $190. Oof. Seems he's a bit high on the muzzle device, but you're not paying shipping. Silencer itself seems to be right on the money. Considering these cans don't come with a muzzle device, that's a hard pill to swallow. I totally understand why someone would dismiss the Surefire, when you can get into a YHM Turbo for less than half the money. Or you can look at something high-tech, 3D printed, flow-through, and comes with a muzzle device, for the same money.

Anyway, I sent an email to Surefire today, concerning the gas leakage out the backside of my RC2. I don't expect to hear back soon (he took about a week to respond last time). I am hoping it's something they have a fix for, and the turn-around is decent.

**EDIT** Well, he got back to me exceptionally quick, when compared to last time. He said it's normal on short barrels. I have not experienced this with my 556mini, but that could be because it doesn't push back as hard, due to it's length.

The Surefire cans really are a love/hate thing for me, at this point. I love the flash performance. I am willing to take the hit on sound performance, for the sake of the flash aspect. I love the mount, so long as there's no quirk. I need to shoot my mini more, to see if it ever does fall victim to the carbon lock or leakage symptom. Surefire provides a brush for the inside of the silencer's mount portion. They also encourage (and sell a tool for) regular muzzle device maintenance. However, the fouling caused by leakage is not mitigated by either of these maintenance practices. Regular cleaning of the collar rotational surfaces is required, if the setup experiences bad leakage. A normal stiff-bristle nylon brush and a pick of some sort is needed for this maintenance.

So, the mount system needs a lot of upkeep. The drop on and twist is excellent. As is the twist and dump off. If the mount components are all clean, it is functionally excellent. If the setup experiences bad leakage, the maintenance schedule may be impractical to the point that the system's desirable functionality isn't sustainable. This is not even considering the annoying filth barfed onto your rifle and support hand.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KSGM,