SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Essential Edge    Sharpening "Super" Steels - "Razor Sharp?"
Page 1 2 3 4 5 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Sharpening "Super" Steels - "Razor Sharp?" Login/Join 
Member
posted Hide Post
"Razor sharp" How many times have we heard that? I've said it in the past!

Posted this before. http://knifegrinders.com.au/Ma.../Sharpness_Chart.pdf Feel it's a good gauge along with the Rizla paper. I shave with the Feathers DE razors, have them on hand. Can I get an edge "razor sharp", match the edge of a Feathers razor? Couldn't quite get there with this Maxamet steel simple edge, see a slight bit of tearing. If I went up a stone in grit and a finer strop or two, no problem getting there. It's plenty sharp for a working edge!

http://knifegrinders.com.au/Ma.../Sharpness_Chart.pdf

 
Posts: 3197 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My hypocrisy goes only so far
Picture of GrumpyBiker
posted Hide Post
Maxamet sharpened to a mirror edge on my TSPROF Kadet.
Having been a high relief woodcarver for years knowing how to sharpen a tool to a razors edge is absolutely necessary.
But free hand stone sharpening when you’ve realized your knife collection has grown to 30-40+ knives I realized it was time to move into a faster guided sharpening system.
Something much more usable than the Lansky kit I had.
Also most of my knives are now moving into 20CV , M390, M4 & CPM-D2 range , hand sharpening can be a real pain.





The Kadet is an amazing setup.
The ability to set an exact repeatable angle is a game changer for me.
The re-zero ability between stones accounting for variances in stone thickness again is a game changer for achieving a consistent edge angle.
I keep a Sharpening log so I know what angle I’ve put on each blade when it comes time to resharpen.





I use diamond stones to set the new angle on a knife before starting up through the non-diamond stones & into the kangaroo leather strop blanks with diamond emulsions.






U.S.M.C.
VFW-8054
III%

"Never let a Wishbone grow where a Backbone should be "



 
Posts: 6726 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Ya, the TSProf is a game changer. How precisely it can control the angle, how flexible it is clamping different knife length. It was a fair step up from using an Edge Pro for a many years. I too have sharpened lots of woodworking tools, chisels, block plane knives... using a Veritas jig or a friends Tormek. Never bought into the romantic notion of free hand Big Grin

What progression of diamond/non-diamond stones, strop/grits did you use?

I've sharpened several tanto blades on the TSProf. Able to keep the transition from belly to tip very defined and crisp. Simply clamp the blade to sharpen the belly, go through your progression, re-clamp just the tip. The clamp strength/pressure will easily hold the blade when just sharpening the tip. Perfect for your PM2 Tanto!

Cool thing about having a sharpener like this is trying different angles. Been my experience with most of these steel can sharpen 28-34 degrees and the edge hold up very well. Ya, that's right 28 degrees! One of my EDC in S110V is at 30 degrees, holds up well. Maxamet does great at 34 degrees. Obviously not stabbing steel drum lids or car roofs with it! Some good info on Knifesteelnerds regarding different angles, effect on edge retention and toughness.

For Kangaroo strops I lower the angle to 1.75 degrees per side from the stone angle. I've experimented from 1.5-2.5. 1.75 works well for me with the pressure I put on it YMMV. I've gone backwards on the edge figuring that out! Simply go back to the last stone.

Got some Rizla papers? I find it to be good gauge. Get an edge to cross-cut... insanely sharp. And the Rizla paper keeps the hair on my arms! Using the Rizla you'll see differences with the same steel from different manufacturers, using the same stone/grit progression. For example ZT does an excellent job with their heat treating on 35V, surpasses other steels from other manufacturers that should be better.

Have fun!
 
Posts: 3197 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My hypocrisy goes only so far
Picture of GrumpyBiker
posted Hide Post
I use an Edge Pro Fine diamond mounted stone to set the edge angle.

Then progress from 120, 220, 600, 1000, 2000 & then move to my 4 Kangaroo mounted Strops.

I use Gunny Juice 3 micron , 1 micron , 0.5 micron and finish with 0.1 micron.

FYI - for anyone thinking of getting a TSProf Kadet.

Order the center clamp as well (not included) if you will be working on anything 3.5” and under.
It helps ensure a consistent edge profile vs offsetting the two clamps to o e side or the other.







U.S.M.C.
VFW-8054
III%

"Never let a Wishbone grow where a Backbone should be "



 
Posts: 6726 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My hypocrisy goes only so far
Picture of GrumpyBiker
posted Hide Post
FYI - for anyone thinking of getting a TSProf Kadet.

Order the center clamp as well (not included) if you will be working on anything 3.5” and under.
It helps ensure a consistent edge profile vs offsetting the two clamps to o e side or the other.









U.S.M.C.
VFW-8054
III%

"Never let a Wishbone grow where a Backbone should be "



 
Posts: 6726 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Like a party
in your pants
Picture of armored
posted Hide Post
You guys have talked me into this knife sharping system.
What is the main difference in models?
I'm not interested in the small portable system.
KO3 or Kadet expert?
 
Posts: 4100 | Location: Chicago, IL, USA: | Registered: November 17, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
https://statesllc.com/products...let-clamp-gen-3-only

Have this style double clamps. Work perfect, very consistent edge heel to tip. This style clamp does take a little time to adjust as does the single clamp. Use the single clamp when can’t use the double. Some of the knives picture in this thread we’re sharpened with double clamps.

Bought my k02 from Statesllc. George the owner good guy to deal with, positive experience.
 
Posts: 3197 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Grumpybiker,

is the reveal change on both sides or one side?

Not uncommon for me not to have the blade centered on the clamp, clamps. If so, usually simply move the tip in to keep a consistent reveal. PM2’s I never center due the aggressive distal taper, clamp very close to the pivot to get a solid clamp on the blade. Knife you pictured next to the TSprof I would clamp it up against the thumb stud because of the more flat.
 
Posts: 3197 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
PM2 clamped, it ain't moving! Angle on both sides are dead nuts. Scratched a witness mark on the stone holder. Simply swing/pivot the holder to adjust the blade in the clamp for a consistent reveal, very easy. Also put the tip of the blade a little closer to the bar to keep the reveal the same due to the tip being thinner behind the edge.



armored, I have an older K02. Very happy with the results I get. No experience with the K03 or Kadet. Know a couple people with the K03 and they both speak highly of the rack and pinon elevation, how smooth and precise it moves. Just by watching a couple videos of the Kadet I would buy a K03 because of how rigid and stationary the clamp bar. I like the idea mechanically having the pivot move the angle vs the clamp bar. The rotation mechanism on the K02 is very solid, same mechanism on the K03. The mechanism is on indent ball bearings, it's a smart idea. I just had to take it apart to see how it worked! The tension on the rotation can be quickly adjusted to vary the tension. With stones have it fairly stiff, switch to strops much looser because of the very little pressure I put on the strop, very fast and effortless to rotate the clamp bar. Hope that helps.

I have a angle cube like Grumybiker. It too has two decimal points. If I were to buy again, get a cube with only one decimal point. Early on using it I fretted a bit too much chasing that 2nd point! Interesting very few factory edges are ground to the exact degree on both sides, some are waaaay off. US Spyderco's do a good job, ZT and Kershaw have been some of the worse.
 
Posts: 3197 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My hypocrisy goes only so far
Picture of GrumpyBiker
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by armored:
You guys have talked me into this knife sharping system.
What is the main difference in models?
I'm not interested in the small portable system.
KO3 or Kadet expert?



My friend & professional (business) sharpener bought the K03 after not liking the base movement he got while sharpening kitchen knives on the Kadet he had.
The larger base of the K03 stopped that .
I decided that I would add a larger removable base to my Kadet as I travel in the motorhome and portability was important so didn’t want the larger model.

This is my solution and it resulted in one hand sharpening with zero base movement. I also added 2mil adhesive backed foam to the entire bottom of the base.
$4 each for the clamps, $2 for the foam sheet & plywood was scrap. So an inexpensive alteration.












This message has been edited. Last edited by: GrumpyBiker,




U.S.M.C.
VFW-8054
III%

"Never let a Wishbone grow where a Backbone should be "



 
Posts: 6726 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Not a Super Steel! Example of a off center clamping on the blade flat, tip is a little forward. Note the uneven reveal of this factory edge. About a 2 degree difference between sides as well.



Knife clamped angles are pretty much dead nuts!





Sharpened. Fairly consistent reveal.



Sharpened to 1500 no strop, just rip cuts the Rizla, no where near "razor" sharp. Steel like this razor sharp or cross cutting the Rizla paper ain't happening regardless of time and grit.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: offgrid,
 
Posts: 3197 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Like a party
in your pants
Picture of armored
posted Hide Post
I have been researching my knife sharpening choices, I have 3 systems that are now on the short list.

The TSPROF K0-3, Looks great but when I add all the holders and a set of 5 diamond stones I'm at about $800.

The TSPROF Kadet - Looks to be able to do what I need, with accessories about $500-600. Close enough in price to the K03 that I hesitate to not go with the K03 model.

Tormek T-8 - With a package that will include basic T-8 package plus several knife sharpening jigs and a scissor sharpening jig plus a 10" Japanese Water stone, 4000grit wheel, about $1300. Way more than I ever expected to spend on a sharpening system but I'm already knocking on the price door with the K03 package.

What do you advise?

I look at this as long term investment. I hope to pass this on to my Son who wants to start making knives(hobby). Maybe I would just give it to him and let him sharpen my knives.
 
Posts: 4100 | Location: Chicago, IL, USA: | Registered: November 17, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My hypocrisy goes only so far
Picture of GrumpyBiker
posted Hide Post
I’m probably the wrong guy to comment as I absolutely love my Kadet and have zero intentions to ever “move up” to anything else.
But if the KO3 isn’t out of your price range and you’re not looking for something to travel with rather it’ll remain all set up, I’d say go with the KO3.




U.S.M.C.
VFW-8054
III%

"Never let a Wishbone grow where a Backbone should be "



 
Posts: 6726 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by armored:
I have been researching my knife sharpening choices, I have 3 systems that are now on the short list.

The TSPROF K0-3, Looks great but when I add all the holders and a set of 5 diamond stones I'm at about $800.

The TSPROF Kadet - Looks to be able to do what I need, with accessories about $500-600. Close enough in price to the K03 that I hesitate to not go with the K03 model.

Tormek T-8 - With a package that will include basic T-8 package plus several knife sharpening jigs and a scissor sharpening jig plus a 10" Japanese Water stone, 4000grit wheel, about $1300. Way more than I ever expected to spend on a sharpening system but I'm already knocking on the price door with the K03 package.

What do you advise?

I look at this as long term investment. I hope to pass this on to my Son who wants to start making knives(hobby). Maybe I would just give it to him and let him sharpen my knives.



Tormek vs TSProf. Depends on what you're going to sharpen. What steels, just knives, wood working tools, scissors, axes.... I've used friends Tormeks over the years for chisels, block plane blades, jointer knives.... Tormek is a great machine, very high quality. I considered a T-8 Tormek before buying the KO2. But I already had a decent investment in Chosera, Shapton stones, strops for my Edge Pro that can be used on the TSProf. As I started sharpening more and more "super Steel" bought the metallic CBN stones. Strongly feel the metallic CBN stones are as good as it gets. Compared those to Venev diamond, Atoma diamond and Wicked Edge diamond stones that I've used on my sharpener and friends. For my own knives in Maxamet, M4, Rex 121, S110V a polished toothy edge is where those steels want to be. Sure it's fun and challenging to put a polished/mirror edge on them, small return on investment of time/stone expense for a little more edge retention. Mirror polished edges have very little bite. I kind of blame WE for everyone chasing mirror edges! For polished toothy edges 300/700 grit CBN and a 1-2 micron emulsion kangaroo/basswood strop yields fantastic results with these and similar steels. I ended up giving away the higher grit CBN stones 3K/5K that I bought to a fellow member. Still use the Chosera and Shapton stones for other steels, mostly kitchen knives. Chosera's are very good waterstones, on my 3rd 1K stone. That 1K is a sweety. If I did buy a Tormek T-8, would have also bought two 10" CBN wheels as well as a hard felt wheel for emulsions. Would use the Knifegrinders software/jig to precisely get angles right. https://woodturnerswonders.com..._sid=11fba61cb&_ss=r I sharpen for friends and family, don't charge, do some horse trading occasionally. If I charged, it would become a job! If I were to try to make money at sharpening, the TSProf is too slow, would have T-8's along with knifegrinders software/jig.

Lots of good info using Tormeks. http://www.knifegrinders.com.au/

My background is repairing, maintaining industrial woodworking equipment. Very much mechanically minded. If the Kadet was available when I bought the K02, would have still bought the KO2. Seems to me just moving the guide rod mechanism vs moving the clamping mechanism to change angles is a better/simpler/less potential to wear over the long haul. I did change two things on the KO2. Ground/polished linear bearing shaft to replace the two piece factory guide rod. The two pieces worked loose a couple times, sure could have locktighted them, but for $35... Drilled/honed out the steel guide rod bearing sleeve, pressed in PTFE sleeve bearing. After a couple hundred knives, the steel bearing was wearing developing play/slop. I saw that as a potential problem before it started to wear. The KO3's uses a Oilite bearing.

Enjoy sharpening stuff. Picked up a square ground chisel chainsaw chain, man that thing cuts compared to round file chains. Now I gotta learn how to sharpen it!
 
Posts: 3197 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Like a party
in your pants
Picture of armored
posted Hide Post
Thanks for the advice!
Its great to get an opinion from somebody that has used all the systems.
I'm not a patient person, this sort of steers me away from stone systems like the TSPROF. I like to imagine that I would spend the time and effort to get the ultimate edge but, in reality the longer I would spend on stones chasing that edge the more I feel I would probably end up with a edge worst than what I had.

I have a "stone on a rod" system now and a Ken Onion Work Sharp, I have never been impressed with the Ken Onion system. I use a steel on my kitchen knives and have not yet felt the need to put a new edge on them but, that will change.

If I went with the Tormek T8 would you suggest the Japanese water stone 4000 grit wheel ($425)?
Would I be better served with a CNB wheel or a couple, what suggested grits?
Would you choose a CBN wheel over diamond wheels?

I have read that the weight of the 10" CBN wheels are heavy and create a wobble on the Tormek shaft from the weight, do you see this, or is this a internet inspired non problem?

I don't sharpen wood working cutters or yard type tools.My Son my have other ideas as far as what to sharpen or shape. I would like to allow enough latitude so if he decided to sharpen axes or hatchets or mower blades he would be able to.
This continues to lead me towards the Tormek.
On the other hand, what if, could lead to spending way more than I need to.

Back to your original post, I would like to try some of the "super steels" and enjoy learning about them from your post.
If you can't maintain something, don't buy it.
 
Posts: 4100 | Location: Chicago, IL, USA: | Registered: November 17, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Which stone on a rod do you have now?

If no plans to sharpen woodworking tools, suggest the TSProf. And with no plans of sharpening woodworking tools... I have three splitting axes, simply use a round axe stone to sharpen. I touched one up today before splitting a pile of wood. Get them plenty sharp for what they do, the steel is what it is. Don't have a lawn mower, no need on a mountain top. Damn happy about that! When I did have one used a hand file or angle grinder to sharpen the blade, very soft metal comparatively.

The Tormek's I've used did not have CBN stones. I've read a lot of what the owner of Knifegrinders has published regarding CBN wheels on a Tormek, been good. Strikes me as guy who loves sharpening, this is what I've learned, this is what I'm doing because of what I've learned, it works for me and here are my results... Sound familiar?! This was long before Knifegrinders was selling CBN stones. His de-burring/sharpening book is worth a read.

If you go with a Tormek... With what your going to sharpen maybe the entry Tormek package with the S250 wheel, knife clamp, stone grader... see how it goes. Woodcraft store near you? I know the Woodcraft stores on the front range will do Tormek demos.

I have a good chunk of change in Chosera, Shapton stones, still use them when appropriate. What I know now, my experience with metallic CBN stones, how they cut, feedback... I would just have CBN stones. Chosera stones are very good, sharpened countless knives with them. Because of those is a big part why I like the metallic CBN stones over any diamond stone I've tried. CBN stones have a very similar feel to the Chosera, not quite as good but close. Sharpen many non super steel knives with the CBN stones with excellent results. Also the metallic CBN don't clog quickly, easy rinse off while sharpening. The silicon carbide stones that come with the TSProf will cut anything, just won't last a long time, will dish out. Plenty good to learn on.

Ya, learning when to stop... that's a big one!
 
Posts: 3197 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
posted Hide Post
Most of my knives are modern steel blades. I have a full set of the DMT stones seven in all from Extra Extra Coars to Extra Extra Fine.

But manual is slow. For knives, I've switched to the Ken Onion Work Shop with the Blade Grinder Attachment using various belts mostly from Micro-Mesh. The microns go from 201, 125, 60, 25, 9, 3, and 1.5. Then I have a stropping belt of .1 micron diamond paste.

But middle of this year, I finally got into straight razor shaving so I bought a set of Shapton HR Series Glasstones. This time, I spent more time thinking about the grit progression I want and settled on 500, 2000, 4000, 8000, 160000, and 30000. The sizes go from 29.4 micron for first sharpening all the way to 0.49 micron which is their finest grit in that series.

If I had to do it over again, I would just go with the Ken Onion workshop and the Shapton stones. The Shapton stones provide great feedback and cuts very fast. Plus no need to soak the stones, just splash as you go to splash away the swarf.

I had plans of living a nomadic life for a couple of years, and so I bought the worksharp guided system. For that, I bought the series of diamond grits and leather strops. It fits in a very small tool box that I could take it me traveling.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 17834 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Tanto tip on the TSProf. Clamped the blade to sharpen the belly, re-clamp for the tip. Crisp transition, consistent reveal between belly and tip. Easy to do on the TSProf!


 
Posts: 3197 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Ok. I have decided I need a better sharpener. I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker. It works ok but nothing to write home about. Only have 4 or 5 pocket knives (Benchmade, Spyderco, etc.) that I would sharpen and a few kitchen knives so I don't really want to spend WickedEdge money. Looking at Edge Pro or TSProf Kadet.
 
Posts: 141 | Registered: June 07, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My hypocrisy goes only so far
Picture of GrumpyBiker
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 06wrb:
Ok. I have decided I need a better sharpener. I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker. It works ok but nothing to write home about. Only have 4 or 5 pocket knives (Benchmade, Spyderco, etc.) that I would sharpen and a few kitchen knives so I don't really want to spend WickedEdge money. Looking at Edge Pro or TSProf Kadet.



I have the Kadet.
You can look in in my pages on Instagram & FB.








U.S.M.C.
VFW-8054
III%

"Never let a Wishbone grow where a Backbone should be "



 
Posts: 6726 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4 5  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Essential Edge    Sharpening "Super" Steels - "Razor Sharp?"

© SIGforum 2022