quote:

Originally posted by xantom:
I have sleep apnea but could not wear that mask. I have always been an early riser. I go to sleep around 9PM and generally wake up at 4:30 on most days. If I go to bed later I'm still up at 4:30 A few things that work for me:

Setting a timer for the TV to shut off makes a big difference for me.

I think about various projects I'm working on and walk through all the minute details. At times I maybe stressed about something, I'm a worrier. If so this really helps to block it out of my mind and focus on something I enjoy. I don't know why this helps but it works well for me.

Not eating anything substantial 2 hours before I go to sleep.

Maybe once a month I will wake up around 1 or 2. I walk out to the couch and watch TV. Canon is on at 2am and then Barnaby Jones at 3am. If I make it all the way to the end of Barnaby Jones I know it's going to be a long day

You said that you cannot wear the mask, do you mean a full face? Have you tried nasal pillows?

Diet is an important factor in sleep quality. Regardless of what you eat, you may try to avoid eating within 2 hours of going to bed. Ideally, it's helpful to reduce the amount of cleanup the brain has to do during the night.

https://youtu.be/VkX3nYpMr2g

I rarely sleep for long; two or three hours at best. I try to sleep often, when I can. A typical sleep cycle needs about three hours for any meaningful rest, and two or more sleep cycles for adequate rest.

I change time zones constantly, and work both sides of the clock. It's impossible to adapt a sleep schedule for night work, or day work, because I do both. I've known some who tried to use chemicals to adjust their sleep, and in my opinion, it's a very bad idea. The best counsel I ever received, and one I preach and practice, is sleep where you can.

My back is in pain around the clock, and my shoulder, and I'm in pain awake or asleep. Laying down in almost any position hurts. It wakes me up. I sleep when I can. Today I slept several times. I'll be working tonight, all night. But it won't ever get dark. By the time I make it to my own bed (a rarity), I'll have gone several days of daylight, no night. The body clock works off light, and circadian rhythm is an important part of a consistent sleep schedule. I don't have a consistent sleep schedule; many don't.

Sleep where you can, when you can. It may be all you can do.

advil pm

Exercise earlier in the day.

Seriously, if I don't get any exercise or outdoor activity I have trouble sleeping. Some exercise (not right before bed) and fresh air and I sleep soundly.

Lots of OK advice here, but as a physician I will post a perhaps surprising warning, based on my reading:

Benadryl (diphenhydramine), has been used for years as a "safe" alternative to benzodiazepines and other prescribed sleep medication.

However, Benadryl is one of those medications that have anticholinergic effects (of which drowsiness is one), and are associated with increased risk of dementia. On that long list of mostly psychotropic medications, Benadryl is probably the most widely used.

Here is the link from the American Delirium Society:
Anticholinergic Cognitive Burden Scale

What does the "anticholinergic burden scale" mean?

quote:

Notes:
• Each definite anticholinergic may increase the risk of
cognitive impairment by 46% over 6 years. 3
• For each on point increase in the ACB total score, a
decline in MMSE score of 0.33 points over 2 years has
been suggested. 4
• Additionally, each one point increase in the ACB total
score has been correlated with a 26% increase in the risk of death. 4

Link

I used to lie away counting each hours. These steps have made a shockingly noticeable difference:

- 30 minutes of cardio per day
- Not drinking after 6pm
- 5mg of melatonin 30 minutes before bed
- White noice in the background
- Got rid of the digital clock that reflected onto the ceiling. I used to lie there staring at it.

I know that I probably need an Apnea machine as well, but I’m slowly losing weight and hoping (maybe naively) that I can avoid that step.

striving for better sleep is a rabbit hole worth seeking, imho...

LIGHT THERAPEUTICS: HOW LIGHT (OR DARKNESS) AFFECTS OUR CIRCADIAN CLOCK, SLEEP, AND MOOD, Dr. Satchin Panda

Satchin Panda, Ph.D. on Time-Restricted Feeding and Its Effects on Obesity, Muscle Mass & Heart Health



Dr. Matthew Walker on Sleep for Enhancing Learning, Creativity, Immunity, and Glymphatic System

I will add that a doctor that understands this stuff will be able to advise you best.

If your problem is falling asleep then a hypnotic like Ambien may help. If your problem is staying asleep, hypnotics are less useful, except in the extended release formulation which has been known to cause side effects (sleep walking, appearing awake but with no memory, etc.). But most sleeping meds are only appropriate when there is no underlying issue. And the funny thing is - who loses sleep over nothing at all?

If your problem as anxiety and racing thoughts, you need to address the root cause which is the anxiety. And despite all their issues, Benzodiazepines are the only truly effective anti-anxiety medication. Many doctors along with the VA are prescribing SSRI anti-depressants (Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, etc.) for PTSD and associated sleeplessness. But these drugs have not been shown to reduce anxiety significantly in clinical trials. My experience is that they can increase anxiety and worsen sleep (esp. Prozac). Benzos are addictive and giving them to veterans many of whom have already self medicated with alcohol is a potential disaster if not monitored closely.

Some people just can't sleep for no reason, and it often gets worse as people age. Some doctors prescribe Mirtzapine (Remeron) for elderly people because it increases concentrations of several neurotransmitters (Seratonin, Norepinepherine, and Dopamine) and is very sedating. For others, various sleep aids may help.

I use a very low does Benzo nightly. Low enough it does not have a noticeable effect. Just slows the mind down a Little to allow normal sleep. I have Ambien for temporary use during business travel for jet lag (I go to Asia a lot).

This is probably going to sound like "new age" nonsense or something, but...

I've tried it all: Melatonin, vitamin D, CBD oil, etc. As somebody else noted: Zolpidem (Ambien®) works to get you to sleep, not so much to help you stay asleep. Diazepam (Valium®) can help you get to sleep and stay asleep. Neither of those drugs are anything upon which you wish to become dependent, though.

What really works is something CTD Sports used to make called Noxitropin. Unfortunately (?), it's been discontinued. One of its key components was a synthesized GABA (Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid), which is good at slowing-down the brain, but has been found to have potentially deleterious side-effects with long-term usage.

So, the "new age" solution: Self-hypnosis or meditation. (Essentially the same thing.) I still wake up a couple times each evening, but, unless I'm really wired for some reason, relaxation techniques I relearned from back when I leaned self hypnosis allow me to easily fall back asleep. Essentially you learn to shut your conscious mind down. To stop the noise.

After I'd re-discovered this, at some point it seemed like it wasn't working anymore. Then I realized I'd been shutting-down everything except the current earworm. Music is supposed to be restful, but not when it's a fragment of a song that just keeps replaying over and over and over and... Learned to hit the "Stop" button on that, too. Problem solved.

Grrrr

I’m swapping from night shift to an afternoon shift this week. My night shift sleep pattern was horrid. It’s a welcomed change.

But I went to sleep around midnight and woke up at 0300 and have been up since, despite 20mg of melatonin.

But yesterday I slept from 1am til 11am, so maybe I’m just rested? I’ll work from noon-10p, hopefully I’ll sleep like a baby tonight.

But I’ve been in on these threads before. I’ve had a hell of a time sleeping in the last 6-8 months. Hopefully switching to where I’ll be sleeping midnight-0800ish will be a game changer. Trying to sleep during the day kicked my ass. And I’d been working that crap for 17 years. Probably aged 25 years doing it.

When I worked nights I went bed late and slept until it was time to get up for work. So like 6am to 1pm, then leave for work at 2pm and get home by midnight. That's the only way I can function. I can't go to bed right after work and get up early.

When it comes to jet lag - I've been to Asia and back dozens of times. Every time is different. Sometimes it takes a week or more to adjust, sometimes it's fast. Lots of factors - time of departure flight, how much you sleep on the plane, time of arrival, day off or work the next day, etc.

But you get used to managing it and functioning at work. Someone asked me how I do it once, and I said "caffeine, alcohol, and adrenalin, but not necessarily in that order".

Pie, ice cream, cake...

Most of my life I couldn't wake up, I was a zombie in the morning. A couple years ago when I cut sugar and most carbs out of my diet I suddenly woke up in the morning like someone threw a switch. Snap, wide awake! But gradually that turned into not being able to stay asleep either. Waking up 6-10 times a night.

So there are times when I know I will need to get some good sleep, I'll take "my sleeping medicine" (ice cream or some heavy dosage of pastry lol)

Have you done a sleep study to see if you have sleep apnea?

For me it was Cutting back on booze, cpap, and meditation with the headspace app

quote:

Originally posted by Kept Bum:
advil pm

Can't disagree.

Consider taking a diurnal cortisol saliva test. There's a chance your cortisol cycle is out of whack. If that's the case there's things you can do to control your cortisol rising too early.

What really worked for me was a CPAP.

I know it has already been discussed, but it's a game changer, and you will get used to the mask after about 2 weeks. The mask quickly becomes a non-issue.

You might consider one. My CPAP is a ResMed Air Sense 10, with standard size Amara View headgear and medium Amara View full face cushioned mask.

My SWAT doctor told me that sleep apnea is killing men like smallpox, and that men who die in their sleep are often misdiagnosed, and the cause of death wrongly attributed to heart attacks and PEs.

You do not have to be fat or old to suffer from sleep apnea. Initially, I blamed 17 years of policing on midnights as the cause of my sleep issues. My SWAT doctor sent me in for a sleep study, and I stopped breathing 144 times in 6 hours. At the time of my sleep test, I was 5-11 and weighed 202. My health insurance paid for my CPAP.

I found that I liked the CPAP with the full-mask covering both the nose and mouth. I look forward to putting it on when I crash at night.

Also, I've found that if I work out first thing in the morning and don't take afternoon naps, when I throw that CPAP on at night, I can fall asleep like a normal human being. That hasn't always been the case at all. The CPAP changed my sleep life.

https://www.resmed.com/en-us/s...achines/airsense-10/