I was already aware that some people will drop a small fortune on a mountain bike but some of the prices I’m seeing for both new and used bikes right now are just crazy high. The used market is wild, sure there are deals out there but the prices seem to have risen rapidly on used bikes and they are selling pretty quickly.

I suppose the law of supply and demand is to blame. I went my local bike shop to inquire about ordering a Marin Pine Mountain 1 or 2 (it’s a super cool retro style Chromoly frame mtn bike) only to be told there is a possibility it wouldn’t be delivered until the late summer or early fall.

I was browsing Trek’s website and went on their “customizable tab” where you have much more options as far as color etc and in no time I built a bike that cost almost $10,000. Now it had tons of travel and absolutely stunning in its chameleon color shifting shade of deep purple that faded to a dark blue hue. I did find myself wondering how fast and hard would I be willing to ride a bike that costs that much money?

This is not a jab at all at people with expensive mountain bikes. I get it, trust me I do these things are damn addictive and fun as hell. That said I worry if I spend a lot of money for a VERY capable bike I’d probably never push it close to its limits out of fear of wrecking it.

To be completely upfront I’ve never actually been a big fan of aluminum frames bikes. I’m coming from a BMX racing background and spent years of my life building dirt jumps and trails in the woods with friends then riding like a damn fool. I gained an appreciation for how a 4130 chromoly/steel bike could withstand spectacular crashes and punts into the forest. I witnessed many crashes and even participated in more than my fair share over the years.. I know exactly how much it takes to break a chromoly frame because I managed to crack one. It took a f&$k ton of impacts and survived hits that would have destroyed an aluminum frame but everything has a breaking point. I also like that chromoly/steel is MUCH easier to repair than carbon or aluminum.

I am currently trying to convince myself that I don’t really need to save up and eventually special order a gnarly steel tubular frame that is hand made by expert welders/bike builders in the U.K. The frame alone starts at £3,000 which is about $4111. Then you have to factor in the shipping situation. I just received a Specialized Stumpjumper frame from the U.K. A few days ago that I ordered in mid December. The seller contacted me a few times worried I would leave a negative feedback/review after tracking seemingly lost the item for a few weeks.

Judging by this video and the crash 27 seconds in it seems like a stout frame

This message has been edited. Last edited by: stickman428,

Motorcycle or mountain bike? Which to get.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Motorcycle or mountain bike? Which to get.

This. People think I’m joking when I say my sports car hangs from the rafters of my garage...

I’m still riding a rigid aluminium fat tube Cannondale that’s 30yrs old. I remember thinking it was crazy expensive at $875 (employee price, my brother worked there)

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
I suppose the law of supply and demand is to blame.

COVID bikemania is probably to blame for high prices on the used market, but the prices for new bikes don't seem all that different from a couple of years ago.

Compared to a decade ago, I'm sure it looks pretty different.

I think something a lot of people don't think about is that both bikes and components have improved DRAMATICALLY over the last few years.

The high end has gotten a lot higher with stuff designed for extreme weight reduction, electronic shifting, etc., but even the low-to-mid level components these days compare pretty favorably to the very best stuff from 10 years ago.

Another way to say it is that there are a lot more $10,000 bikes now than there were ten years ago... but also that today's $3000 bikes are better than the $10,000 bikes from ten years ago.

Best thing you can do is try and barter with products that have also skyrocketed in price over the past 10-months. Guns, ammo, fitness equipment, fishing equipment, etc.

Bought my American made Cannondale hybrid in 2005. Apparently right now the frame alone is worth more than the $1500 I paid for the entire bike. Friend bought a new one last year and yeah it was like $4000. Ridiculous to me.

Yeah, I was looking for a new mountain bike recently. The sales guy said due to covid everyone is buying bikes to get out of the house and play so their stock is low and prices are crazy high.

I did some on line research looking for and XL full suspension ride. There were three XL bikes in the state. I ended up buying two of the three.

I was in the market for a carbon road bike from Trek. Everywhere I called told me I was looking at 9-10 months out. Not exactly cheap models I was looking at around $3500. Gave up, might come back to that idea later this year.

I ordered a set of wheels/tires, etc. set up for off road riding for my hybrid. Took 4 months to come in. Finally got them in yesterday and went for an off road ride. Definitely made a huge difference.

I don't ride Mountain bikes as much ss I used to. I have a Trek 7.2 hybrid I ride now, when I ocassionaly ride.

My mountain bike is an old 2001 Giant NRS2. $1,400 new back then I love that bike, fits like a glove, never had a instance of trouble with it in the thousands of miles I rode it. It looks brand new, I didn't try to destruct it every time I rode it.

Some singletrack, but mainly rail trails.

Technology improvements over the years have made mountain bikes , well, in my view, ugly as hell.
I'm glad I have my old Giant.

But I'm not out there full monty anymore.

Be careful when you think you are getting an "American made" bike. These days that could mean just about anything, but mostly means it was assembled in America. Most aluminum and carbon fiber bike frames are made overseas- primarily in Taiwan and China.

Ibis still makes their bikes in Santa Cruz, I believe. But their bikes have always been expensive.

Guerilla Gravity makes their own carbon frames in Colorado, and has gotten a fair amount of attention for that lately because almost no carbon mountain bike frames are made in the US.

quote:

Originally posted by Orguss:
Ibis still makes their bikes in Santa Cruz, I believe. But their bikes have always been expensive.

Even when the bikes are assembled in the US - not sure if Ibis does or not - VERY few frames and components are made here. (Although a lot of the high-end components are made in Japan, rather than China or Taiwan.)

Here's an article from 2018 saying all Ibis carbon frames had been made in Asia but they were starting to make small numbers in the US.

https://www.bikemag.com/gear/i...s-carbon-production/

It's still not a lot, but there are more US-made aluminum, steel, and titanium frames available, because the barrier to entry (cost of tooling) is a lot lower.

quote:

Originally posted by snwghst:
I’m still riding a rigid aluminium fat tube Cannondale that’s 30yrs old. I remember thinking it was crazy expensive at $875 (employee price, my brother worked there)

Klein Mantra Comp here, 20+ years. Works fine. It was like $1800 new, so trying to get every last dollar from it.

Bought it after bending the rear triangle on a Trek 700 on a rocky downhill.

Get an aluminum or steel 29er hardtail with slacked out "trail" geometry. You can often find them used for around $1500.

I'm fortunate enough to own a few bikes that cost more than my guns In a mountain or road bike you're paying for Formula 1-level tech. Some of these bikes have carbon so sophisticated they're export controlled. The suspensions can take drops from 15 feet without damage. It's incredibly impressive and mind-boggling if you're coming from a BMX background.

But if you're just riding your local trails you don't need all that capability. I sold my full suspension bikes because I wasn't riding them. I have one 29er hardtail that's plenty for 95% of the trails in my area. And I do most of them with a gravel bike anyway.

If you want American made there are a few options. Frank the Welder is one of if not the top steel mountain bike manufacturer. Moots, Brad Bingham, and Lynskey all build great 29ers. They all are in the $5k range for a frame. Alchemy and Allied make American carbon.

If you don't care about American-made frames, Transition Trans Ams can be had for pretty cheap. I have a 27.5 version and quite like it. The Trek Stache is also excellent. But if I were to build a bike on a budget, I'd start with this: https://konaworld.com/honzo_st_frame.cfm

A Kona Honzo ST with a Shimano SLX groupset, 34mm stanchion 140mm fork, PNW dropper, and a decent set of wheels and tires can be had for well under $2000 if you build it yourself. And you'll have just as much fun as with that $10,000 bike.

I recently bought a 10 y/o Cannondale for $400 and it still blows my mind, the tech onboard compared to my heyday in MTB. Disc brakes over cantilever. Air/oil shocks over elastomer.

There are bargains to be had. But the best new stuff is tremendously high tech/low volume.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
I was in the market for a carbon road bike from Trek. Everywhere I called told me I was looking at 9-10 months out. Not exactly cheap models I was looking at around $3500. Gave up, might come back to that idea later this year.

I was just up at one of my local shops last week and they tell me certain specific models are backordered to July ..... of 2022.
Road bikes seem particularly bad in terms of finding something in stock. I guess it's because road bikes are a smaller share of the total market these days compared to off road bikes, gravel bikes, comfort bikes, etc. Manufacturers concentrating on the bigger market segments I suspect.

Granted things are better now than last summer when they had literally no bikes in the store. The store has a lot of bikes now, but it's misleading. If you look closely, you'll see few road bikes, the "cheaper" bikes are sold out, and perhaps only XS and XXL frame sizes are available, but at least you can get SOMETHING if you aren't too picky.

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:
Get an aluminum or steel 29er hardtail with slacked out "trail" geometry. You can often find them used for around $1500...

I have one 29er hardtail that's plenty for 95% of the trails in my area.

Word. That's what I have (a Giant XTC 29er), and it's been fantastic for everything I use it for.

For those who haven't tried 29s yet, the switch to 29s has a noticeable effect, especially for big guys like me when I'm pounding down a trail.

Caneau, Thank you for the info on the Kona Honzo ST that’s a nice bike and now it’s on my radar.

Who else makes a good chromo/steel frame mountain bike? I really would like to get a full suspension bike if possible since I already have a hardtail that I like. My hard tail is aluminum so I am also open to a steel frame hard tail like that Kona.

I got my ass kicked on the trails this past week by a guy who looked like he was in his 60’s or 70’s. He was riding some kind of 29er full suspension bike. I tried to lose him and couldn’t so after I let him pass I tried to keep up. That didn’t work so well, my 27.5 hardtail was bouncing around quite a bit. I think it was a combo of him knowing the trails better than me, having a better bike and me being a little out of shape currently.

I built myself a mountain bike a couple of months ago.

I'm in the "buy once, cry once" camp, and while my wife doesn't mind my buying something expensive, she generally objects to getting rid of things that work fine in order to upgrade.

That pushed me towards the high end, and the lack of availability of complete bikes and my desire to get exactly what I wanted pushed me to build it myself.

I compulsively researched every single part before deciding on stuff.

I was able to find exactly the frame I wanted in stock, and by shopping around several of the big online bike shops (JensonUSA, Competitive Cyclist, Worldwide Cyclery), I was able to find almost every exact component I wanted in stock over a period of about a month. There were a couple of little bits I had to source from other online shops.

My build was very high end, but not absolute tippy-top high end on every single component.

If we leave off stuff that wouldn't normally be included in the purchase price of a bike, like a multitool and tire repair kit stuck in the handlebar ends, GPS bike computer, spare tube and pump and stuff strapped to the frame, etc., I spent about $9000.

It might be helpful to this thread to talk about some of the technology that makes some of the stuff I chose very expensive, and also some of the technology in some of the even more expensive stuff I DIDN'T buy.

The Frame:

I bought a very expensive frame, a Following V3 from Evil Bikes, which is designed for 130mm front travel and 120mm rear travel, putting it in the "short travel trail" category. With the included rear shock, which is the best short-travel rear shock Rockshox makes (so not the most expensive, but the most expensive that will fit on the bike - the long-travel shocks are more expensive but are for bikes with significantly more rear travel), it was $3200.

Some of that price tag is because of the company. Evil Bikes is a US company (although I don't think the frames are made in the US). They have a very good warranty policy and an EXCELLENT support department, based in the US, staffed by bike nerds that know EVERYTHING about their bikes. I had some detailed, technical questions about assembly and parts compatibility and got instant, thorough answers.

Some other contributing factors: The frame is carbon fiber. It has a complex suspension linkage designed by Dave Weagle with a bunch of small, machined parts. There are ports in both the main frame and rear triangle for internally routing brake hoses, the shift cable, and the dropper cable, and they aren't just holes in the frame - each pair of ports is connected by an internal tube that keeps the cable or hose from rattling around inside the frame and makes feeding them through the frame trivially easy. I imagine there's also a bit of paying for the logo on the headtube, too. Evil Bikes is a popular high-end boutique bike company.

Anyway, it's an expensive frame, but you can get excellent carbon full-suspension frames for less money, and can spend a LOT less and still get an excellent frame by going to aluminum, going to hardtail, or both.

The Drivetrain:

The hot thing right now, which adds about $1000 to the price of the drivetrain, is electronic shifting. I specifically DIDN'T want electronic shifting, not because it doesn't work well (it is pretty universally praised as fantastic), but because I know myself and know that I would regularly get out to a trail with the batteries dead or left home on the charger.

I went with Shimano over SRAM. That's in part because I've always had Shimano and always been happy with it, but there are also two things Shimano has right now that SRAM doesn't. First, Shimano has come up with a chain and cassette geometry that is designed to shift under load, called Hyperglide+. Second, the higher-end Shimano rear shifters (XT and XTR) can upshift twice on a single lever push - after the first click, you can push further and harder to shift again.

What used to be the hot thing, but has become basically universal, is 1x drivetrains (no front shifter) with a huge range on the rear cassette. The biggest benefit here is that because it never has to shift, the front chainring can have big teeth that really fill the spaces in the chain (called a "narrow-wide" chainring, because it has alternating narrow and wide teeth to fit the alternating narrow and wide gaps between side plates of the chain), which almost totally eliminates the old problem of having the chain bounce off the chainring.

It does mean the rear cassette is HUGE. Shimano uses a 12-speed cassette from 10 to 51 teeth. Packing so many cogs so close together means the derailleur has to be more precise, it means the chain has to be narrower (and so needs to be made with stronger materials to tighter tolerances), and it makes the construction of the cassette more complicated. You can't just stick a 10 or 12 tooth cog on, either - they're so small they have to go directly on the rear hub. Such a huge range also means the derailleur needs to be able to take up a lot more chain.

The rear cassette is one place I DIDN'T go tippy-top-end. All the Shimano 12-speed cassettes have essentially the same geometry, the difference is in materials and weight. I went with an XT cassette. The two largest cogs (which see the least torque) are aluminum for weight savings and the rest (which see the most torque) are steel. It's $160, which isn't a lot more than the lower-end SLX and Deore cassettes (both around $100). The top-end XTR rear cassette is almost $400 - the three largest cogs are aluminum, and the four smallest are steel, but the five in the middle are titanium. Titanium is cool, but I'm not a racer, so I don't see any point in paying almost $250 extra to save a few grams on a part that will regularly wear out and have to be replaced.

I did splurge on the XTR rear shifter and derailleur. In addition to wide-range 12-speed rear derailleurs needing to be very precise and take up a ton of chain, mountain bike derailleurs these days have a switchable clutch built in that adds a bunch of tension to the derailleur arm to keep it from bouncing around and letting the chain detension (and maybe fall off) when you go over bumps.

Cranks are another place I didn't quite go tippy-top-end. All of Shimano's MTB cranks are aluminum (which I personally thing is good - I don't see the value of carbon cranks). The XT cranks are $150. The XTR cranks are about 70 grams lighter and have a new, slighter cleaner-looking attachment method. They're also $430. Again, not a racer, can't see the point in spending the extra almost-$300.

I did spend $350 on a Stages Cycling XT crank power meter, though. It measures pedaling power and wirelessly communicates it to the bike computer. I'm partially riding for fitness, so I figured more data was better.

Wheels

I got a very expensive set of wheels made - the wheelset by itself (no tires, cassette, or brake rotors) was $1850.

The wheelset uses Faction rims by We Are One, which are pretty high-end (but again, not quite tippy-top-end) carbon rims. They aren't really any lighter than aluminum rims, but they're supposed to have excellent ride quality and be damned near unbreakable - to the point that the lifetime warrantee, verbatim from their website, is "If you break a rim while riding, we send you a new one. Period. It is that simple. NO rim replacement cost (shipping will be charged)."

The wheelset uses Onyx Racing Products Vesper hubs. They were a splurge and are absolutely tippy-top-end.

Most rear hubs use a ratcheting pawl freehub. The buzz when you stop pedaling comes from the pawls clicking over the ratchet teeth. Ratcheting pawl freehubs have a certain number of "points of engagement" - places in one full rotation of the freehub at which the pawls can engage. Any time you start pedaling, there's some initial no-load pedal travel as the freewheel turns until it hits an engagement point.

Basic freehubs often have around 18-24 points of engagement, which means there can be a pretty big dead zone before the pedals hook up. Higher end freehubs have more points of engagements, sometimes a LOT more. The hot product right now is the Industry Nine Hydra hub, which have 690 points of engagement - effectively instant, with no dead zone when you start pedaling. They have a really loud, high pitched buzz when you stop pedaling, though.

Onyx Racing Products use a different system called a sprag clutch. A sprag clutch is kind of like a ball bearing with oval balls that slide freely in one direction but cam and lock in the other. There are two big upsides to the sprag clutch system over the ratcheting pawl system. First, the sprags start to engage as soon as the freehub starts to turn, so engagement starts instantly. As the sprags rotate into the fully cammed, locked position, the engagement is slightly soft, without the jerk or snap as the pawls click into place and go instantly from freely rotating to fully locked. Second, the freehub is totally silent when you're not pedaling. No clicking or buzzing.

Other stuff

I went pretty high end on Magura MT7 hydraulic disc brakes with HC3 adjustable levers. For mountain biking, even cable-actuated disc brakes are a huge improvement over rim brakes. Good hydraulic disc brakes give you a TON of braking control and power, and even self-adjust (to a point, to be sure) the starting position of the pistons to account for pad and rotor wear to maintain consistent bite point and feel at the levers.

I love the Evil Following frame, but one minor issue is that it doesn't have a very long straight section of seat tube. I bought an expensive dropper (Fox Transfer) both because I wanted something reliable and because they have an unusually short housing for a given travel length, which let me maximize dropper travel.

I bought a few expensive bits and bobs like an Industry Nine stem and a Wolf Tooth seat post clamp just because I think the companies make cool stuff and they look good.

So what?

I spent a lot of money building a super awesome mountain bike. I could have built a very awesome mountain bike for half what I spent or a pretty awesome one for maybe a quarter.

The least expensive decent mountain bikes have gotten more expensive because there have been technology innovations that are hard to live without once you've used them. Anyone building a decent mountain bike today is going to put hydraulic disc brakes on it, and even inexpensive hydraulic disc brakes are a lot more expensive than inexpensive rim brakes. Most people building decent mountain bikes (with a few exceptions, like lightweight cross country race bikes) will put a dropper post on, because they make a HUGE difference. A dropper post is obviously a lot more expensive than a rigid seat post.

Expensive mountain bikes have gotten more expensive for similar reasons: carbon fiber everything, titanium, electronic shifting, all kinds of wild stuff.

In the middle, the very good but not-top-of-the-line bikes have gotten tremendously more capable without getting a lot more expensive.