Tires, drivetrain, fork, handlebars, brakes, seat post.

On a steel/4130 frame bike I wonder if there is a noticeable difference in weight between the small, medium and large frame sizes? Just swapping out that steel fork on the green Marin Pine Mountain probably sheds quite a bit of weight.

I was reading that I can shave off about a pound of weight by going to tubeless tires. This is something I want to do to my Polygon bike soon. I recently swapped out the aluminum bars on the Polygon for Specialized carbon fiber bars with more of a rise. I didn’t really notice much of a weight difference but I certainly noticed a difference in handling with the new 90mm shorter bars. Those goofy looking almost too long original bars (760mm) felt slightly more stable on the trails.

There's bound to be some increase in weight going to larger frame sizes, but I bet it isn't as much as you might think. The fork and rear triangle won't change very much, so it's mostly the top tube, down tube, and seat tube getting a little longer.

I'm not sure what year Pine Mountain that is, but the current Pine Mountain uses butted tubes in the frame, which means the tube walls are thicker at the ends (where all the joint stress is) and thinner in the middle. The added length would be in the thin profile section in the middle.

If you WANT to stick with tubes, there are some (expensive) ultralight tubes that can save you most of the weight of a conventional rubber tube. The two I am aware of are Tubolito and Schwalbe Aerothan.

There are some pros and cons of tubeless tires.

Pros:

Weight. On a 29er, two conventional rubber tubes do weigh about a pound.

Weight again! You're not just dropping the weight of the bike by a pound, you're doing it by taking a half pound away from the rotating mass at the rim of each wheel.

There's no tube inside to pinch flat (when you hit a rock or something and the tube gets squeezed hard enough between the tire casing and the rim to punch holes in it), so you can run lower tire pressure for more traction.

You have to run sealant inside tubeless tires. If you get a thorn or nail puncture you probably won't get a flat.

Punctures too big to self-seal, but not huge, can often be sealed just by jamming a little rubber strip into the puncture with a little forked skewer and letting the sealant do its magic. This is called, naturally enough, a "tubeless repair kit," and is a miniature version of a car tire puncture repair kit, except that you don't need separate sealing goop because there's already sealant in the tire.

Cons:

You have to run sealant inside tubeless tires. It's not very expensive, but it can be messy and it's another thing to keep up with. You can either take the valve core out and use a big syringe to squirt it in through the valve stem (which seems fussy and I haven't bothered with) or just dump it directly into the tire before you get the second bead onto the rim (which I have now done 8 times, without ever spilling more than a drop or two of sealant).

Sometimes it's really, really hard to get the tire beads to set if you don't have an air compressor. You have to get enough pressure into the tire to force the beads against the rim even though the tire isn't actually sealed yet. There are some tricks that can help (like wrestling with the tire and cursing while you try to get the beads as close to set as you can with your hands), but this is enough of an issue that a bunch of the bike accessory companies now make bike pumps with auxiliary air tanks that you can pump up and then blast into your tire all at once (basically, a manual air compressor).

You still need to carry a spare tube in case you get a big enough puncture that the tire won't seal.

If you're running low pressure and riding aggressively, you can hit something hard enough (especially while turning) to momentarily push the bead away from the rim and "burp" some air out of the tire.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Speaking of tires, maladat how do you like the Vittoria Mazzas? I just bought a Vittoria Agarro to try on the back of my mullet bike, and may mount an Agarro or Mazza on the front. Right now I have heavy Maxxis double down tires for ski lift trails and I am switching to something lighter and more pedal friendly.

I am a big fan of tubeless. My home trails aren't especially tough on tires, but I have run about 4 years tubeless without getting a flat, using orange seal endurance sealant. The green finish line sealant didn't work for me.

I like everything about tubeless except getting the tire to seal the 1st time with a floor pump. I don't have an air compressor at home. I solved that by getting a Blackburn Chamber floor pump. Basically you pump up the chamber and it stores 1 tires worth of air. Once full you flip a switch. The big rush of air seals the tire, makes it easy.

The Mazza tires seem good, but I've only had them on the bike for a couple of weeks and I doubt I'm a good enough rider to really tell the difference between them and another reasonably aggressive trail tire.

One thing to watch out for, unlike the Agarro, the Mazza comes in two casings, TNT (trail) and TLR (enduro/downhill). The TLR casing tire is about 300g/11oz heavier per tire.

Also, at least on my rims, the beads are INSANELY tight. It took three tire levers and a lot of cursing to get them on.

I've been using Stan's NoTubes Race Sealant.

I am really liking the Soma Valhallen. In a small frame it looks almost more like a BMX bike than a mountain bike. They seem to be sold out everywhere right now.

That's a nice looking bike.

It's funny, dropper posts have been pretty ubiquitous for a few years now, and as top tubes move down and seat tubes shorten to accommodate them, droppers get longer, so then the top tubes move down, etc.

There are droppers over 200mm travel now!

Two quick pics from a morning ride out in the country and then on to a park a few days ago. It was so warm yesterday that I got to ride in shorts!

It feels so good to be riding again!!!!

What a difference a frame makes. The Giant Anthem in a medium frame (the black one) feels f&$@ng amazing!!! I found a medium AL frame Anthem X29 at a killer price. The bike is far from perfect, in fact it is pretty beaten up but it’s rideable.

It doesn’t feel quite as nimble as my 27.5 bike but holy smokes it’s faster than my hardtail in the bumpy/root filled sections of the trail I was riding yesterday. The rear suspension really stayed planted and helped me keep up my speed on the trail. Especially while pedaling and bouncing over roots.

I think I’m going to tear apart the silver (large) anthem and build up some kind of medium or maybe even a small frame full suspension bike out of some of its parts.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: stickman428,

Yes indeed, mtb prices, new AND used are astronomical right now. Pretty much inline with anything in the recreation world, or any consumer product for that matter considering the old supply & demand factor.
There are some nice bikes in this thread, and some nice builds in motion. Good stuff.

I’ve enjoyed getting back on a mountain bike the past two years. Bought a new hard tail in 2019 - a Specialized Fuse Comp 29” in XL aluminum frame. By far not the top of the line setup from the factory, just a step or two above basic components. I bought the bike I could afford with the expectations of upgrading components a little at a time. I did recently upgrade the wheel set to industry9 Enduro S with Hydra hubs. Let me say I never knew what a difference good wheels with a superior rear hub would do for the ride quality. If you don’t know like I didn’t, the new premium aftermarket wheels are not just for show & tell. The i9 hydra rear hub has 690 points of engagement. Where a normal stock rear hub has a lot less, like 18–24. In other words, when you pedal a normal standard bicycle, it takes several degrees of motion for the crank to catch the gear- for lack of a better term. But with these new designs, it’s an immediate engagement, leading to instant torque and power to the rear wheel. I had no idea.

Anyway, I got off on a tangent. My point is, and for reference, I’ll be 50 this year. In my 30’s I rode a full suspension 26” Specialized Stumpjumper Expert on some awesome trails for fun, once or twice a week. Been off bicycles a while, ready to ride again and I thought I’d now be more comfortable and secure on a 29” hard tail, as I’m not as daring as I used to be. The larger 29” tires as you know roll over the trail roots and rocks a lot easier (more forgiving).

I have been curious this past week or so after watching this thread if I’d be more comfortable back on a full suspension. Been watching pinkbike buy/sell forum as well as pro’s closet online. Y’all are right, these mtb prices are thru the roof. Even used bikes are being sold for more than their original msrp due to the shortage of inventory. Well, low and behold, I walked in to my neighborhood bike shop a couple days ago and spotted a full suspension mtb on consignment- an Ibis Mojo 3 carbon, 27.5” wheels in an xL frame. And decked out in top tier components, including Fox Factory fork, Fox factory rear shock, & dropper post. Plus it had the i9 Hydra wheel set. Figured it would be way out of my league price-wise, but it was actually quite reasonable. After a short test ride on a local trail (one lap on my Fuse followed by one lap on the Ibis), I was in heaven. Felt much more nimble and responsive. I was apprehensive about riding a 27.5” wheel bike after going to a 29”, but gave it a try.

One of you guys in an earlier post in this thread mentioned the difference between two bikes was feeling like riding on top of one bike, and feeling like you were riding ‘in’ the other bike, if that makes sense.

I’m 6’3”, 240lbs. Thought I’d dig the 29” wheel bike more, but in a way, I felt insecure coming over an incline and barreling downhill. Like I was too high off the ground. My wife and I rode Harleys for ten years (each on our own bike) back when we had more time. Reminds me of when I upgraded from a 1200 Sportster to a Road King and slacked out the bars and foot controls. Sitting down in the bike as apposed to on the bike.

In a nutshell, I was able to figure a way to secure the Ibis full suspension yesterday, and I’ll for sure get my Fuse hard tail back to stock and sell the i9 wheel set separate, and sell the Fuse no problem with the lack of local inventory.
I was glad to see and follow a thread about mountain bikes from you guys. Gave me the initiative to get on something different which I’ll enjoy a lot more. Probably get out and ride more too. Thanks for all the info on this post and keep the builds coming! I’ll post pics as soon as I remember how. Last time I posted pics on sigforum was thru photobucket if that tells you anything.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GASIGnut,

GASIGnut, Congrats on the bike! 27.5er to me feels oh so nimble and agile. I feel like I cover distance and roll over obstacles MUCH easier on the 29er but at the cost of a more clumsy, large and less responsive feeling front end.

On a smooth twisty as hell trail I think I might be faster on a 27.5 tire bike but if it’s a rooted up or rocky trail the 29er is going to feel better. I’m honestly not sure which I prefer. I have a few 27.5 and 29ers and I’m riding them about equally right now. My 27.5ers are both hard tails with front suspensions which are fun but not as capable as my full suspension 29er. I really want to test ride a nice full suspension 27.5er on a bumpy trail.

Post up some pics of that new bike when you are able to. I like post image for photo hosting.

Yep Stickman, agreed on all points regarding tire size 27.5 vs 29. The new-to-me 27.5” full suspension Ibis is currently running 2.5” wide tires, with the ability to run up to 2.8” width. My hard tail 29er Fuse has 2.6” wide tires.
I’m considering putting on a 2.6” wide tire on just the front wheel to help with ramming roots and such. May help just a touch, I do run my front tire aired down a touch. Don’t think I want to size all the way up to a 2.8” wide front, it’ll take away from the agility of the lighter smaller 27.5” wheels.

Stickman I think you would really dig a spec’d out full suspension 27.5” and enjoy it even more than your 29” fs Anthem.
Thanks for the tip on the image hosting by the way.

First time posting a pic on the forum in years. New-to-me full suspension 2019 27.5” ibis mojo3. A bit flashy and colorful for my taste, but I bought it for the hi-end components and top tier specs. But there’s no shame in this patriotic theme. I’ll rock it for as long as it holds together...



Pic with my hard tail Fuse 29r on my test run with both bikes the other day...



Closeup of linkage. The bike is squeaky clean and well maintained...



One more gratuitous shot...

Oh my!!! That is a GORGEOUS bike! The frame looks a little like one of Specialized’s Enduros. It’s so sweet looking I like how the top and down tube have that cross over section that reinforces the shock. Looks damn solid. I wish more bike companies would be willing to adopt frame designs like that. The “X” the frame makes when you look at the line that cross over section forms against the line the shock makes just looks solid as F&$k. It looks like an incredibly fast machine able to tackle pretty nasty trail sections with ease.

Congrats man, that looks like an incredibly fun ride.

New bike finally came in...ordered in August and arrived Wednesday. It was worth the wait!

Trek Top Fuel 9.8 XT Project One in Amplified Alchemy. SID fork, Kovee Pro wheels, XT Drivetrain, and lot's of Carbon...weighs in at just 24.1 lbs...First two rides yesterday and today tell me it's faster than I am currently so I'll be able to grow into this for a few years. Until the next bike, of course.

Sweet ride with awesome specs MaThGr82! I’d say you’re right about being worth the wait

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Oh my!!! That is a GORGEOUS bike! The frame looks a little like one of Specialized’s Enduros. It’s so sweet looking I like how the top and down tube have that cross over section that reinforces the shock. Looks damn solid. I wish more bike companies would be willing to adopt frame designs like that. The “X” the frame makes when you look at the line that cross over section forms against the line the shock makes just looks solid as F&$k. It looks like an incredibly fast machine able to tackle pretty nasty trail sections with ease.

Congrats man, that looks like an incredibly fun ride.

Thanks Stickman! Looking forward to hitting the trails next week.

MaThGr82, that’s a great looking bike! I especially like the color you selected. That color shifting blue/green/purple paint is the same color I went with when I was building a bike on Trek’s website.


Today is going to be a fun day. It’s hovering just above freezing and raining off and on so no riding today. My son and I are going to be assembling a Battleship Blue Specialized 415 Fat Boy with FAT chromoly tubing because you can never have too many classic BMX bikes in the garage. Using my massive assortment of spare parts we should have a fun dirt jumper for less than $80 invested and one that’s built like a brick shit house.



This is a big reason why I love 4130 chromoly. Whisky dents are better than cracked frames.

I’m pretty sure this will be my next bike. 2.8 inch wide tires stock and a reinforced chromoly frame. In many ways it seems like it’s just a grown up BMX bike with a few modern features tossed in. It looks like a hoot.

For rainy days when I might not take my other bikes out on muddy trails this looks like a great bad weather bike. It just maybe needs some fenders and it’s ready to roll!