Thanks very much. I'd love to visit the place. Hell, I've looked at so many old street maps of Orange and surrounding townships, I could probably find my way around West Orange pretty good without a GPS.

I just looked again and there are still only three extant pics of the Black Maria. The image I thought was a photo is actually a drawing. Still, though, it shows the Black Maria in its original location and that's fantastic.

That didn't take long. I found that drawing:

https://archive.org/details/ed...or/page/n43/mode/2up

One hundred feet southeast of building number 4.

And what the heck is building 21? According to the measurements, a "building No. 21" sat on the (former) site of the Black Maria at the time of the survey in 1969.

Buildings 1 through 6 were the main facilities. Building 7 was a blacksmith's shop IIRC. There's building number 11 and 13. I think the gatehouse is designated building number 9. I don't recall a number 21.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
One hundred feet southeast of building number 4.

And what the heck is building 21? According to the measurements, a "building No. 21" sat on the (former) site of the Black Maria at the time of the survey in 1969.

Buildings 1 through 6 were the main facilities. Building 7 was a blacksmith's shop IIRC. There's building number 11 and 13. I think the gatehouse is designated building number 9. I don't recall a number 21.

Follow this link to NPS historical documents and they have everything listed about the Edison lab complex that they have. Just scroll down to the "T's, and find "Thomas Edison National Historical Park". Below it is everything they have on the location. Have fun!

Thanks again for that.

Yeah, building number 21 was what was known as the Cement Building, according to one of these surveys. Edison was involved in the manufacture of Portland cement and marketed it as a material to build homes and other structures (The Edison Cement company built Yankee Stadium in 1922 using Portland cement). When Edison finally moved into their first purpose-built film studios (in the Bronx, around 1908 or 1909) Edison Portand cement was used. I don't know if building 21 was used for the actual manufacture of the cement, or it was merely a research and testing facility. Looking at the size of the building in other diagrams I've found in all this new documentation, I'd say they were actually manufacturing product in that building. There were two railroad spurs that terminated right on the grounds of the West Orange lab. One went to the Phonograph Works and the other, I imagine I'll find out soon, went to building 21.

In the last of the three extant photos of the Black Maria, taken in the summer of 1903, a building can be seen right up against one end of the Black Maria. This was building 21. The diagram with the measurements show that once the Black Maria was dismantled, the end of building 21 was extended twenty or so feet. When I frst saw that photo, it confounded me because I couldn't figure out why a structure had been built so close to the Black Maria, it could no longer be rotated on its axis. But, now it all makes sense.

In one of these surveys I've just obtained, it says that before 1952, it was "impossible" to determine the original location of the Black Maria. Well, what happened in 1952 which changed this? What hapened was the discovery of a third photo of the Black Maria (actually, it is chronologically the first of the three extant photos). What is significant about that photo is the background. In the background of the pic, the southeast end of building number 5 (the main building) cn be seen, as well as the smokestack which extends up from building number 6, the powerhouse building for the lab.

What I was intending to do by obtaining every photo I could which showed the smokestack on the southeast face of building number 5. The edge of bulding 5 and one edge of the smokestack would allow me to draw a line which would locate the Black Maria, at least in one axis.

The park rangers at the site will tell you that the original location of the Black Maria was right about where the water tower is today (built in 1922, or 1928 according to another source). Well, the water tower is built right up against the back of building 4. The two support legs for the water tower which are the closest to building number 4 are perhaps ten feet from the back wall of that structure, and I knew there was just no way that that was the location of the Black Maria. As we now know, the very best estimate is that the Black Maria was approximately one hundred feet from the southeast face of building number 4.

Additionally, intriguingly, a wood plank fence can be seen in the photo discovered in 1952. The Black Maria appears to have been built on the side of the fence opposite of the main lab failities. I wonder if this fence was there to separate the lab building from the Phonograph Works. I've yet to run across any mention of this fence.

What got all this going were a couple of very early Edison films which seemed out of place. How could it be that before May, 1896, when Edison's people developed a portable camera, that there were Edson films which show the world outside of the Black Maria? The original Kinetograph housed in the Black Maria was a tabletop camera with a cast iron frame (the extra weight was intended to cut down on vibrations from the camera), sitting on a heavy table which moved on a track. The camera could be moved forward or back in relation to the stage, and the camera could be rolled to the very back of the Black Maria, where Dickson had built a darkroom. In this way, film could be loaded and unloaded from the camera.

So, how could it be that there were films made with this (at the time) one and only kinetograph, showing the outside world? I suspected I knew the answer. Film historian Paul Spehr confirmed what I suspected, which is that Dickson and his assistant Heise lifted the Kinetograph off its railed table, opened a side door in the building, rotated the building into position, and simply photographed their subjects through the open door. The camera never left the building.T he only alternative was for Dickson and Heise to take the kinetograph out of the Black Maria, load it onto a horse-drawn buckboard and go down the road with this experimental instrument bouncing around in the back. No way. No way that was done, so, these films had to have been shot on the lab gorunds.

Before I had the answer, I was trying to determine where these films might have been shot, by looking at the background of them. Guess what appears in the background of these films? A wood plank fence. Hey, whadda ya know about that? Click, click, click- it's all falling into place.

Here's one of the films which confounded me and which started me on this very interesting journey.

This is Juan Caicedo, the "King of the Wire". He was a Venezualan acrobat. In the summer of 1894, he was appearing at Koster & Bial's Music Hall in NYC. Edison had a relationship with K&B and it was at Koster & Bial's in April, 1896 that the first public exhibition in the United States of films (as opposed to the peep show-type viewing of films through a Kinetoscope). So, it's no wonder that this performer would be willing to put on a show for Edison's camera.

Shot by Dickson's assistant, William Heise, July 25, 1894.



Agian, this counfounded me, because I knew I shouldn't be seeing any outdoor motion pictures from the Edison studio shot before May, 1896. The answer to the mystery has revealed itself slowly over the past few days, and now, I'm an even more insufferable film snob than before.

There's still some mystery to it- the wood plank fence, I recognize from other photos, but what's with the house in the background? That doesn't appear to be one of Edison's numbered lab buildings. It looks like a two story home. I'm wondering if the camera was pointed toward Alden Street, one of the streets bordering the lab grounds. PersPective-wise, Dickson/Heise would have to be using a lens with a longer focal length, and I think all they had was the one optic, built for them specially by Bausch&Lomb IIRC. Some things about this, I'll never be able to determine, because the information is gone, if ever it existed at all.

Some about Edison and shows a model of the black maria.

The thing about all models of the Black Maria- including the one erected in 1954 on the grounds in West Orange- is that none of the three extant photographs (and two drawings which appeared in contemporary magazine articles) of the exterior of the Black Maria shows the back side of the building. No one knows if there was a side door on the backside, yet the reconstruction shows one. Notice on the model in the video above, they elected to represent no door. It's anyone guess.

Perhaps one day, another photograph of the studio will turn up. It happened in 1930 (the 1903 photo) and it happened in 1952 (the 1893 photo). As time goes by, it becomes much less likely that such a photo exists, but, it's a nice thought.

Oh, this is news to me. I can't see how I missed it before. This document indicates that the replica of the Black Maria - erected in 1954 and stands today still- is "7/8 scale of the 1893 orignal." Section 9.2

In 1998, they considered relocating the Black Maria from its present location, to a location closer to where the original stood. They proposed a location behind building 4, some 413 feet where the replica stands today. It would not be possible, though, for the replica to sit on the exact spot of the original, as that part of the Edison lab grounds was sold sometime in the 20th Century. If you look at that lot on Google Earth, it's just some kind of minor industrial mess.

Fascinating story. I wasn't familiar.

Thanks for the education.
Until today I knew nothing about the
black maria or the early films of Edison. Very interesting.

.

My wife is an archaeologist and has studied Patterson, the Falls, eastern NJ and NYC/ lower Manhattan. We're in the northern NJ area. LMK if there's something further you may need and she may have the ability to track it down. VR, NMP.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

...My wife asks me why I spend hours searching the web to try to find essentally lost information on subjects no one else seems to care about. Well, THIS is why I do it!

My interest - OK, it's an OBSESSION - is military history, especially old missile silos.

I'm sure Mrs. Sigmund, Mrs. Para, and many others breathe a sigh of relief saying "There are much worse hobbies my husband could have."

quote:

Originally posted by motor59:
...the site in West Orange is in my patrol region. Actually drove past it twice tonight.
If you need help something chased down in situ nowadays, I'll be glad to assist

quote:

Originally posted by NMPinNYC:
My wife is an archaeologist and has studied Patterson, the Falls, eastern NJ and NYC/ lower Manhattan. We're in the northern NJ area. LMK if there's something further you may need and she may have the ability to track it down.

Thanks to both of you, and thanks once again to sig226fan and Sigmund.

Here's another of the films which confounded me previously. From May 12 to October 6, 1894, Buffalo Bill's Wild West and Congress of Rough Riders of the World was at Ambrose Park (now Sunset Park) in Brooklyn. Two performances daily- 3 PM and 8 PM, rain or shine. General admission was 50 cents. If you wanted to be close to things, you could pay 20.00 (a lot of money in 1894) and be seated on a covered grandstand.

Ten days after the close of the Brooklyn show, the troupe was still in the area. Two members of Buffalo Bill's show appear in this film on October 16, 1894. Entitled "Bucking Bronco", the film shows Lee Martin ("a genuine cowboy" says the Edison catalog listing for this film) on the bronco and Frank Hammitt, Buffalo Bill's "Chief of the Cowboys" firing his pistol in celebration (or perhaps to get the horse moving for the camera).

Notice the corral appears to be made of a combination of old boards and new boards. Edison had plenty of carpenters and handymen on staff in West Orange and that corral could have been put up in a couple of hours. Again, this film was shot about a year and a half before the Edison team had a portable camera, so this was shot through the open side door of the Black Maria. William Heise was the camerman. And, hey, what do we see in the background? A wood plank fence. Yep.

Documentation I obtained yesterday states that an area outside the Black Maria was prepared for this and the Caicedo film.

If you are interested in further tracking down Buffalo Bill information, including whether or not they have more film of the exhibition shot at Edison, you might contact the Buffalo Bill Center of the West in Cody, Wyoming. It holds the Buffalo Bill Museum and Collection. https://centerofthewest.org/ex...lo-bill/collections/

I toured it 18 months ago, and it is spectacular.

Thanks. My interest in Buffalo Bill and his show extends only to the participation of his troupe in early Edison films at West Orange (some 8 films altogether IIRC, though some are now lost). I did snag a very useful guide from that museum which lists every show date of Buffalo Bill's show, from its inception to its merger with 101 Ranch.

Here's a contemporary reference to "The Black Maria" as slang for a police paddy wagon.

The New York Times, Sunday, August 11, 1895, page 28



BTW, in this case, "Maria" is pronounced Muh-REYE-uh, not Muh-REE-uh.

In researching this term, I find many references to London in the late 19th Century and to London's East End specifically. If I had to guess, I'd say that that is where the slang term "Black Maria" originated- with the toughs in the East End.
It's my belief that the Scotsman W.K.L. Dickson is the Edison employee who applied this term to what was officially known as the Revolving Photographic Building, and also as Building number 13. The building was his design, so it's fitting that he gave it the name that resonates even today.

A poorer B&W photocopy copy of this was in the 1969 survey I was looking for, but the trail of breadcrumbs lead to the original in the Historic Structures Report part 1, Edison NHS West Orange 12-1-1966



They did the same thing I was going to attempt using the same photograph from 1893, the difference being that they knew what they were doing.

Can anyone find copy of this online? The Quarterly Journal of the Library of Congress Vol. 37, No. 3/4 (Summer/Fall 1980)

Would this help?
https://www.jstor.org/stable/c...035061a4a434e5eb46ea
Search result thumbnail for Ref.: "Black Maria" at the Edison laborato....

You have to have certain credentials to get in there.

In the case of the LOC Quarterly, I'm after a particular article by Paul Spehr, who is a film historian specializing in the birth of motion pictures.