quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:
Isn't this kind of thing exactly what the Green Berets were created for? Or has their mission changed over the years? I'm not talking about Delta here. The problem with this approach though, is that now we're talking about American boots on the ground in Iran, which is not something I'd prefer to do.

The green berets, by design were to train others to fight against oppression “ de oppressor liber” to free the oppressed, is the green beret motto. I don’t think anyone wants boots on ground though, and that has been something of a “ line in the sand” since this kicked off. Nothing to stop us from setting up a training base in neighboring Iraq and training Persian people to rise up though, which would be my option. Set up a secure base on the Iran/ Iraq border and equip and train

How about non stop bombing for 60 to 90 days, bunker bombs, and don't stop. Sorry for civilian casualties, but end it.

The entire Iranian strategy at this point is simple. Get American media, American politicians, and anyone else they can to deem this 50 year in the making war be forced to halt.

If they can make us stop, then they can rebuild their shitty weapons and do this all over. If we keep this up they will be throwing spitballs. At that point all the other weak dick nations will join in for “protect worldwide trade” parades once the threat is zero.

https://x.com/polietzz/status/...een-moved-to-pacific



U.S. Navy Minesweepers Assigned To Middle East Have Been Moved To Pacific

quote:

The U.S. Navy Independence class Littoral Combat Ships (LCS) USS Tulsa and USS Santa Barbara, which are configured for minesweeping duties, have appeared in port in Malaysia. Both of these ships were last known to be forward-deployed in the Middle East, having arrived in Bahrain in the past year or so to take the place of a group of now-decommissioned Avenger class mine hunters. Now, as Iranian attacks on commercial ships have caused a virtual halt to maritime traffic through the highly strategic Strait of Hormuz, these ships have emerged thousands of miles away. The extent to which Iran has seeded naval mines in the Strait already is unclear, but this remains a huge threat to the future security of the waterway and will have to be taken into account in any future effort to reopen this critical waterway.

A spotter in Malaysia posted pictures of the USS Tulsa and USS Santa Barbara, which are said to have been taken today at the North Butterworth Container Terminal (NBCT) in the Port of Penang. Mike Yeo, an Australia-based defense and aviation reporter, was among the first to call attention to the particular significance of the images. TWZ has reached out for more information.

....

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
The entire Iranian strategy at this point is simple. Get American media, American politicians, and anyone else they can to deem this 50 year in the making war be forced to halt.

It worked for the North Vietnamese…

The mission is to remove the Islamo-terrorist regime and permanently prevent Iran from ever having nuclear weapons.

That's it. We can hope Iran's citizens bring about a more freedom oriented government. But that isn't part of our mission.

Boots on the ground must be only to achieve the mission goals. I trust Trump will prevent mission-creep.

People expect instantaneous miracles with zero cost. It took fifty years of us hoping the Ayatollas would become nice before Trump and Netanyahu had to fix it. The cost now is more than had action been taken sooner, but less than if nothing were being done now.

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
It worked for the North Vietnamese…

And as only the most successful example in our history.

quote:

Originally posted by spunk639:
How about non stop bombing for 60 to 90 days, bunker bombs, and don't stop. Sorry for civilian casualties, but end it.

You don't want civilian casualties!
That turns people against the US. Especially in that region. You want those civilians on OUR side.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:

quote:

Originally posted by spunk639:
How about non stop bombing for 60 to 90 days, bunker bombs, and don't stop. Sorry for civilian casualties, but end it.

You don't want civilian casualties!
That turns people against the US. Especially in that region. You want those civilians on OUR side.

Absolutely, look what the two ICE shootings in MN did to that whole process, distracted the news from the Somalia and MN Fraud, took the governor off the hot seat, and now we're involved in a budget shutdown over shutting down ICE.

We don't need more political distractions from achieving victory, since WW2 all problems in wars have been politically driven decisions that have hampered the military...

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
The mission is to remove the Islamo-terrorist regime and permanently prevent Iran from ever having nuclear weapons.

That's it. We can hope Iran's citizens bring about a more freedom oriented government. But that isn't part of our mission.

Boots on the ground must be only to achieve the mission goals. I trust Trump will prevent mission-creep.

People expect instantaneous miracles with zero cost. It took fifty years of us hoping the Ayatollas would become nice before Trump and Netanyahu had to fix it. The cost now is more than had action been taken sooner, but less than if nothing were being done now.

While I agree with you... I'd say that the "remove the Islamo-terrorist regime" part is a bit of an unknown. We've already removed the head of State + an unknown portion of the IRGC which supports the regime. The new "supreme leader" seems to be more of a figurehead than a true clerical leader. The IRGC is the real power.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
since WW2 all problems in wars have been politically driven decisions that have hampered the military...

There were plenty of political decisions in WWII, but no one with any sense will say that civilian casualties can or must be ignored.

And as for nonstop bombing for 90 days or any other period, there are already concerns about our level of available munitions. My only hope is that those concerns will translate into the recognition that we need more capability to produce munitions—and before we need them someplace else.

As for available munitions. I have read that as well. What I haven’t read is any even mildly credible resource they are getting the data from.

From the start the media has been 100% against this war. Everything they post is either strictly negative or pretty close. I doubt any reporter has even mild access to actual real stockpile numbers at their disposal let alone accurate real time data. Even “DOW sources” are suspect because there are still a lot of Trump haters inside DOD(W).

If I ever read stories that explored the positive side of neutering Iran (of which there are many) I might believe some of the other side. Until then it’s just the media throwing mud hoping something sticks.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Until then it’s just the media throwing mud hoping something sticks.

Could be, but as I recall, there were concerns about 155mm shell production quite some time before the current war.

But as a colleague's coffee cup says, “Not my pasture, not my bullshit,” so I can only sit in the neighboring field and watch what happens. My concerns, much less thoughts, matter not in the slightest, and no one would be happier if it is only mud.

Committing to "no boots on the ground" is a huge boost to Iranian strategy, which as noted above consists solely of hoping the US will either get tired of war, or lose the will for victory.

Me, I'm betting on Trump not giving a shit.

Are we using a bunch of 155mm shells? I remember those reports as well. We were supplying Ukraine and were just about out. Has Ukraine stopped using artillery? Have we replenished the nearly completed depots since pausing weapons sales and then restarting them?

I ask this to point out the shortage doesn’t seem to have actually occurred. Or did it? Does anybody actually know factually?

The media reported this dearth of shells months ago. Credible sources report we are still supplying 155 shells.

So did we run out or not? Did we get real close? My point stands. They are throwing mud till it sticks.

How many stories have we read about 4 million dollar missiles shooting down 25 thousand dollar drones? A bunch. Now how many stories do we read about the precipitous drop in launches and the US deploying cheap interceptors? About zero by my count. Either of those stories true? Not sure but I sure don’t trust the media to report them if it paints anything in a positive vein.

Of course you are right that if we need them somewhere else they, whatever amount that is, won’t be available. I can tell you as a former naval officer though being able to fight war on multiple fronts has been a concern for decades. We don’t have a wartime (WWII) sized military. We could maybe fight two real fronts. Maybe.

I put zero stock in media reporting. As I suspect you do as well.

Where would we place cannon artillery to lob 155mm projectiles 20-30 kilometers?

One can certainly fire HIMARS missiles across the Strait of Hormuz.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/...734408&lctg=26773771

Some video in the link.

President Trump Explains Why the Iranian People Haven’t Risen Up

President Trump defended the Iranian people for not yet rising up against their government as Operation Epic Fury enters its third week.

While another mass protest could help ensure the current regime is ultimately prevented from retaining power, Trump acknowledged the brutal reality facing ordinary Iranians. The regime has openly threatened to shoot and kill anyone who attempts to rise up, a threat made all the more credible after security forces slaughtered more than 30,000 protesters earlier this year.

"You're dealing with thugs. You're dealing with horrible people. You're dealing with people that are violent and vicious and that's the leadership and the people right under them. They're military, or they're police, and they've notified everybody, and they put out statements that if you protest, you're going to be shot and killed," President Trump said aboard Air Force One. "The protesters have no guns, and I know you're a brave person, but I don't think you'd be protesting, and so I think it's very hard for them to protest. I fully understand it. They said if you protest, you will be killed."

"A week ago and two weeks ago, they killed 32,000 protesters. At least we think the number is much higher than that," the president added. "They shot and killed 32,000 protesters who were greatly enthusiastic and wanted to see a change because they've destroyed the country. The people that are running it destroyed the country, but think of it. They shot and killed much more than 32,000 people."

"So I can fully understand why they're not doing it," he said.

This comes after the president, during remarks announcing the launch of Operation Epic Fury, called on the Iranian people to take control of their government once the United States had finished with the regime.

Here's part of the problem, and it's a HUGE part;
Insurrection & Insurgency is easy if you can sneak in a handful of Green Beanies and crates of AR's / AK's. But ya gotta be able to get them in and have them move around in that environment.
Yeah, that's part of the ODA's job, and they are pretty damn good at it.

Let's look at the 3rd world dictatorships that comprise most of the Arab Countries-
Their counterintelligence networks are pretty deep! There is the Police, then the Secret Police, then the Super-Secret Police. You have the regular (conscripted) Military, then the "true believers" Military, Then the DIE HARD Military (Think- Palace Guards).

They have spies all over the place. It's not just the 4 or 5 people who snitch to various agencies, there's probably hundreds. Layers and layers of people snitching on each other. No one trusts anyone, and that's just the way the Tyrannical Dictatorship wants it.

Take these little scenarios:
You and your family are "Down for the cause", can't stand this tyrannical dictatorship, and are willing to help out the Green Berets.

How old are your kids? Will they say something to their friends? What happens if their friends say something to their teacher? Who would make a great "spy"? Yeah, that teacher.

Neighbors see 12 strange dudes roaming around, they kinda look Arab; speak a little of the language, but not really. That's a huge red flag there!

There's always just some dude hanging out on a corner, or along an important route. Dude is there all the time, no one really pays attention to him, because all he does is talk to himself, smoke, and wander around. Take a guess what he's doing? Yep, he's working for either the "Secret Police" or the "Super Secret Police".

Random checkpoints along a "friendly" supply route, and all of a sudden "Yo, Achmed, this looks like an M-4!"

Your Neighbor may be "Ehh" about all of this. He doesn't care because he's making money, family is fed, and he's pretty much left alone. The "Secret Police" snatched him up for something stupid- buying / selling stuff he shouldn’t, gambling, drinking (remember, a lot of the Arabs aren’t too keen on that)… The Secret Police aint gotta hit him too many times with a fan belt before he says "Take a look at his house!"

Easier to do in a rural area, a lot harder to do in the middle of a City, harder the larger the city.
So setting up a team of Green Berets and supplying them on a regular basis is a tricky situation.

Then there's the "Timing".
You want the revolution to start at the right time. Too early and the Government snubs that shit out like a cigarette in a urinal. A lot of people get killed, and not quickly, a lot of people get tortured, and a lot just "disappear".
You want to make sure when that wave is coming, it has enough momentum and support.
There's a few critical elements that also need to happen as well. Leadership, (especially FRIENDLY to US, since we're the ones backing this.) Communication, internal infrastructure...

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:
Where would we place cannon artillery to lob 155mm projectiles 20-30 kilometers?

I will try one more time:

My point about 155mm shells was that the shortage or lack of capability to manufacture them was identified before the present war and before the Left had any reason to claim that we were going to be short in a future war. In fact, the claim was being made by conservative YouTube sources as an example of what we should be doing in regards to armaments. My example had nothing to do with how many of the shells were being expended in the current war, but that perhaps—just perhaps—if there was a situation that might impact something as basic as a most common artillery shell, could it be true that we are running short of other munitions?

Or do all those top military leaders who are praised so frequently here know better, i.e., that 155mm shells don’t matter any more; it’s all laser beams and drones now?

If that is not clear, I am sorry but I have exhausted my limited ability to explain further.

Regarding the media, if one doesn’t get information from that source, where? I’m curious what the unbiased, knowledgeable, competent sources are. This or that podcast? Some “influencer” whom we love today and hate tomorrow? Where do they get their information? Do the likes of Tucker Carlson have inside sources in the Pentagon or White House?

And FWIW, The Wall Street Journal is a source I follow regularly, and although they are not among those who believe that DJT can do no wrong and therefore they do criticize his actions regularly, they also often say good things about him and about the current Iran war. If they say that the war is justified, should I then change my opinion on the spot because no BS media source can say anything that’s true? Based on the countless posts here bitching about the NYT, CNN, and many other sources of their ilk, I can only believe that a lot of people follow them for some reason. If so, why? (I do not, BTW.)