^^^^^ perfect thank you for the link.

That is the distinction that makes the reporting first posted above very biased.

quote:

Originally posted by ryan81986:
I certainly have no sympathy for any member of the iranian military.

I actually have a great deal of sympathy for the low-level Iranian military folks (the GIs, not the generals). Poor dogfaces doing their jobs, just wanting to go home at the end of all this. I can't really blame them. And as much as I am glad we sank that Frigate in the Indian Ocean, I take no pleasure from the sailors who went down with the ship. . .

Now, I'm all for open season for the political leadership of Iran. THOSE guys are the ones systematically oppressing and destroying their own countrymen and enabling/facilitating terror operations all across the world. I think we should eliminate as many of those a-holes as we can.

^^^^^
Same with me, Hound Dog.
They’re mostly conscripts.

Sort of related. At what point do we stop feeling sorry for enemy combatants even if they didn’t have a lot of choice to be when and where something bad happened to them.

This is a question I’ve thought about for a long time since I ran across an observation about the men who were involved in the July 1944 plot to assassinate Hitler. Paraphrasing, but the author pointed out that the men who were hung from meat hooks and piano wire nooses for having been involved in the plot were themselves ultimately responsible for their fate because they had supported Hitler, the Nazi system, and the war for many years. It was only after things turned so bad that they realized they had to get rid of Hitler to minimize the scope of the disaster that was facing Germany and them personally.

Another example of being responsible for one’s fate under a totalitarian regime was during the “great terror” in the Soviet Union during the 1930s. In time virtually all the men who were responsible for carrying out the horrible repressions at the beginning of the era found themselves victims in the same way later.

Conscripts on an Iranian warship are of course not in the same category as high level German officers or Soviet NKVD torturers, but conscripts or not, what did they support? Did they think it was a good idea for civilians to be indiscriminately killed in terror attacks? And what about the people dancing in the streets? They evidently didn’t like being oppressed themselves, but are they willing to say, “Yeah, those Israelis and other Jews aren’t so bad after all?”

Ultimately of course it doesn’t matter why an enemy combatant ended up where he did to suffer the fate of his fellows and nation, but should/can there be tolerance for the men who skewered babies on their bayonets at Nanking or who pulled the triggers on naked women and children in western Russia even though they had no choice about being there in the first place?

I’m not challenging anyone’s opinion on the question because although it is something I have thought about a lot, I don’t have any easy answers for myself.

This is something I have been co side ring as well. Are rank and file troops in Iran part of the oppressive Islamic regime or involuntary conscripts?
We have to destroy the infrastructure that risks harm to the western world or our continued operations, but all that stuff has people operating it. One thing we have always done as a military is treat defeated adversaries with respect and a sort of “I understand” attitude - sharing rations or smokes etc, and relating to the defeated soldiers. Right now it is academic as a long distance conflict.
Much like the Russians in WWII dying facing the enemy is better than being gunned down by officers as a coward. I imagine the Iranian soldiers may be in the same boat.

quote:

Originally posted by captain127:
This is something I have been co side ring as well. Are rank and file troops in Iran part of the oppressive Islamic regime or involuntary conscripts? ... I imagine the Iranian soldiers may be in the same boat.

Iran has compulsory military service at 18. Assignment of the draftees can be to the regular Army ("Artesh"), the Revolutionary Guards (IRGC) or the the Law Enforcement Command. IRGC typically draws from families connected to the regime or those whose families have good "revolutionary" credentials from 1979. IRGC troops see better pay, better conditions, better equipment, and better opportunities for post-military employment (the IRGC controls a vast array of "front" businesses, domestic and foreign, beyond their "official" roles within Iran). The rest can look forward to pretty rough conditions in the Army or Police. Beyond ideological suspicion, this adds to the "friction" between the various branches.

The relationship between the Regular Army and the IRGC has always been strained (at best) or outright hostile (at worst). Think WW2 relationships between the Wermacht and SS, or more recently, the Armed Forces of Haiti and the Ton Ton Macoutes. The IRGC's role is to guard the REVOLUTION and the clerical regime, not the country. The professional core of the Army sees themselves as patriots who serve "the land" and the people, not necessarily the regime. They've tended to NOT be involved in the regime's human rights abuses outside the "Kurdistan" area. The Ayatollahs have never fully trusted the Army (recall that the Army did NOT interfere with the 1979 takeover after the Shah fled) and the IRGC was formed as a "safety" against an Army coup that never came. IRGC training is as much about ideology as about military skill (or their subsidiaries like repression or exporting terrorism).

The average Iranian conscript has little to look forward to if they're Army-bound. The LEC tends to skim off conscripts who have a family relationship with the Basij (effectively auxiliaries to the IRGC) or the police, and the IRGC tends to get the harder-core.

There are continuing and expanding reports of Artesh units telling IRGC to pound sand (literally... as in, get your asses out of our compound and into the desert before you draw fire on all of us) and refusing to cooperate with either suppressing demonstrations or defending IRGC assets. The belief being floated in Farsi-language social media is that the regular Army is "making their deal" for the post-clerical world. The flipping point comes when they start to actively "block" the IRGC from scorched-earth tactics or strikes on civilians. Again, social media suggests that they're at the first part already in some areas, but nothing that's been particularly validated... yet.

I'll just put this here - not sure if a separate thread is needed.

Video captures chaos erupting at NYC vigil for slain Ayatollah Khamenei as punches fly

Chaos erupted in Washington Square Park in Manhattan as a vigil mourning the death of Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei descended into violence Friday, with video capturing a man being pummeled to the ground while attempting to tear down a poster of the late Iranian leader.

Video showed a man attempting to pull down a poster of the dictator — killed last week in an Israeli airstrike — when a man wearing a SpongeBob sweatshirt punched him in the face, sending him to the ground.

Others began fighting, prompting New York City Police Department (NYPD) intervention.

As the brawl unfolded, the crowd could be heard shouting profanity.


More here:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/video-captures-chaos-erupting-nyc-vigil-slain-ayatollah-khamenei-punches-fly


I certainly hope DHS, FBI, ICE and others were performing full surveillance and facial recognition at this event - like an invite list for future terror events in the US.

Some things seem like they have to be .gov operations.

A memorial for a murdering terrorist at Ground Zero, seems like it had to be one.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
Some things seem like they have to be .gov operations.

A memorial for a murdering terrorist at Ground Zero, seems like it had to be one.

Ground Zero is 2.5 miles from Washington Square Park. I suspect the location was chosen to reach potentially sympathetic ears among NYU’s 60,000 students of which one fourth are international students.

Memorial Service for Slain Ayatollah in NYC
“The vigil is being hosted by several left-wing activist groups including Crown Heights Bites Back and the Bronx Anti-War Coalition. The groups have held similar events for other notorious leaders from the Middle East including Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar.”

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
^^^^^
Same with me, Hound Dog.
They’re mostly conscripts.

Ahh okay I wasn't aware of that. I take back my last statement.

Did you ever think you would see such an epic ass-stomping? Operation Midnight Hammer was in and out in a couple of hours, but this- well, this is the opening of an entire warehouse of whoop-ass.

Apocalyptic. Biblical

https://x.com/VividProwess/status/2030364812463477174





https://x.com/NiohBerg/status/2030379969889681465

quote:

If that part isn't true then the narrative is wrong and moral outrage is shit.

Just pure outrage. The “moral” is just an emphasis. Moral when supporting Illegals in this country who are hurting and killing American Citizens. Yeah, that group really has “morals”.

“Orange Man Bad” at any and all cost! Crying and throwing a tantrum from a group of people who would never have the moral fortitude to ever serve the country that allows them to cry like petulant children.

Orange Man Bad could come up with the cure for Cancer and the Left would still protest, whine and bitch.

quote:

Originally posted by ryan81986:
I certainly have no sympathy for any member of the iranian military.

Just for perspective:

1st Gulf war- Desert Shield, then the first few days of Desert Sword/Storm: The US and its allies are fucking up everything in Iraq left, right and center. Air defense is now a Bedouin with a musket. Iraqi soldiers are walking out waiving the white flag so much that the French are jealous.
US military rolls up on a group, they start interrogating them.
One of the Iraqi’s says (in English) “I was a cab driver in New York 6 months ago!” And shows them his NY Drivers License and his Hack Card (Taxi License).

Poor Mahmood was home on vacation, goes out for a 6-er and a pack of smokes, next thing he knows, Poor Mahmood is now Private Mahmood, 1st Iraqi Anti Aircraft Battery.
A lot, and I mean a lot of places, Military Recruitment is more at the business end of an AK, baseball bat, or it’s just a better option than a small stint in prison.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
Just for perspective:

Good point, and I don’t disagree in the slightest about what can happen to people against their will.

The same sort of thing happened to men who were born in Germany, grew up in the US, but happened to be back in the old country at just the right time to get drafted into the Wehrmacht. It was a sad story among literally countless sad stories, but it didn’t prevent their being killed all the same by people who might have even sympathized with their plight if they had known it.

According to Iran International and the BBC Farsi language service, "standoffs" between Revolutionary Guard and Regular Army (Artesh) units are becoming more common. Most recently:
IRGC "Saberin" unit arrives to arrest Neighborhood Council members in the Punak district (northwest Tehran). Regular Army MP unit is already in the area guarding infrastructure. IRGC asks Army to kindly move their armored vehicles so the Saberin unit can pass. Army politely responds "Yeah, no, sorry. Our orders conflict. Also, we need to prevent civilian panic, so, y'all have a good night now." IRGC leaves, because upstream the folks who could theoretically approve one national force firing on another are either dead or incommunicado.

At some point the IRGC will have no options other than "flexing" what muscle they have left, because unlike the Army, there are absolutely no palatable "After Epic Fury" scenarios for the Guard.

I'm in the pool for "The regime will crumble without a single US/Israeli boot hitting Iranian soil." The only thing propping the government IS the Republican Guard at this point (including their hand-selected Supreme Leader), and they're getting almost 100% of the coalition attention.

^^^ DennisM: Good points!
I'm also in the pool for "The regime will crumble without a single US/Israeli boot hitting Iranian soil."
Trump also just said, "I'd like the Kurds to stay where they are, and not complicate things."

As far as blowing up the refineries it reminds me of the classic line from the movie iron Eagle, "looks like they'll be importing oil this year, Chappy"

Listen to this. This is why Donald Trump decided to stomp the ever-loving shit out of these psychopaths.

https://x.com/RyanSaavedra/status/2030415019985559631

"War is the continuation of politics by other means"

- Prussian strategist Carl von Clausewitz.

quote:

Originally posted by preten2b:
Asking for a little help here.
Like many of you with somewhat liberal family, my son is arguing this post is proof our methods are dishonorable . Ryan Grim x Story is on sinking the Cruiser in Indian Ocean.

Not on da'Twitter. Anyone else know this reporter, or if the story shows what I expect are flaws?

I came across this story. I have no way to corroborate it though. https://iranintl.com/en/202603071125

An Iranian sailor who was killed when the warship Dena was struck by the US near Sri Lanka had called his father shortly beforehand, saying American forces had issued two warnings for the crew to abandon the vessel, a source close to the family told Iran International.

The Iranian navy warship's commander refused to allow the crew to abandon Dena despite the imminent threat, the source added.

The sailor’s father said some crew members argued with the commander, and the 32 crew members who survived were mainly sailors who managed to escape on lifeboats, according to the source.

A US submarine torpedoed Dena in the Indian Ocean on Wednesday, about 19 nautical miles from the southern Sri Lankan port of Galle, killing dozens of sailors and significantly expanding Washington’s campaign against Iran’s naval forces.

The sinking of the Dena — described by US War Secretary Pete Hegseth as a “quiet death” — marked the first time since World War II that the United States had torpedoed an enemy warship, underscoring the widening geographic reach of the conflict with Iran.

An internal US State Department cable dated March 6 seen by Reuters said the US urged Sri Lankan authorities not to return the 32 surviving sailors from Dena and the 208 sailors Sri Lanka rescued from naval auxiliary ship IRIS Booshehr.

JP