quote:

As an aside, I'm so sick & tired of Rick Perry saying he will fix the border. He had a chance to, for a long time, & of course didn't do shit. FO Rick Perry.

That is the game they play. Remember "We will repeal Obamacare!"

quote:

What does it accomplish to have a majority vote on a measure that will certainly be vetoed, with no hope whatever of override?

What's wrong with passing bills we need and forcing the Kenyan King to veto them?

People will then at least know where he stands on what's good for America (if the MSM reports on these issues).

Too damn much has Congress exhibited their flexible spine and bent for the bastard.

Make his last 16 months one long, highly publicized veto. He's charging ahead with his pen and phone. Give the son of a bitch some paperwork to do.

RMD

quote:

Those of you who are unhappy that the Congress hasn't been more effective in shutting down some of Obama's program don't understand how the rules and procedures work, or apparently realistically gauge political support for these antics. You just want what you want, much like the people who wanted civil rights laws for decades before there was sufficient support to get a meaningful bill through over the firm opposition. Until you have the essential parts in place to make it stick, it is merely tilting at windmills, squandering marginal support, demoralizing staunch support and shooting your own leaders.

That's the whole point! We are sick of these self made rules as they go and they are NOT leaders.

Never mind the fact Bonner is to busy kissing Nancy and golfing with Barry.

We are tired of them all working only for money and self interest. We are done sleeping while they rape us and ruin the country. They are awakening the silent majority from their slumber.

Its time for the Left Vs. right prop up game to end. No more business as usual.

That's my take.

Peace out.

quote:

Originally posted by rduckwor:

quote:

What does it accomplish to have a majority vote on a measure that will certainly be vetoed, with no hope whatever of override?

What's wrong with passing bills we need and forcing the Kenyan King to veto them?

People will then at least know where he stands on what's good for America (if the MSM reports on these issues).

Make his last 16 months one long, highly publicized veto. He's charging ahead with his pen and phone. Give the son of a bitch some paperwork to do.

RMD

^^^This. So far the Republican majorities we gave these losers haven't accomplished anything. How many bills has Barry the Wonder Putz been given to veto? Given McConnell's too worthless to even begin to organize a veto override, the senate might as well just send this traitorous president a stack of bills to veto and forget doing anything else.

The old phrase about "If you don't stand for something, then you stand for nothing" appears to be the business model for the current crop of Repubs in Congress. And the anger/disgust created in the populace by that approach is exactly what Trump has tied into. So keep it up Mr. Boehner and Mr. McConnell and you might just be personally responsible for a president Trump.

The Planned Parenthood Defunding was voted on tonight in the Senate.

The vote was 53-46. Two Senators of each party voted with the other party, otherwise a straight party vote. Majority Leader McConnell voted no, a procedural tactic which allows him to bring this up again.

So, what else could be done?

It takes 60 votes in the Senate to shut off debate. There wasn't enough votes to do that.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
The Planned Parenthood Defunding was voted on tonight in the Senate.

The vote was 53-46. Two Senators of each party voted with the other party, otherwise a straight party vote. Majority Leader McConnell voted no, a procedural tactic which allows him to bring this up again.

So, what else could be done?

It takes 60 votes in the Senate to shut off debate. There wasn't enough votes to do that.

You didn't note what I was pointing out above. McConnell could have done as Harry Reid has numerous times and used the senate rules to attach this issue to another bill whereby cutting off all debate and revisions, and avoiding the 60 vote threshold. That bill would have passed on a simple majority and gone to Zippy's desk for approval or veto. Frankly, I for one don't care what Zippy did with it at that point.

McConnell didn't take the above course of action because he knew he could parade out a separate defunding bill today that would be voted down allowing the Repub's to continue "the good fight"...right up through the next election. I just don't think he sees the level of disgust he's creating with with his actions.

McConnell's a worthless piece of trash that's not worthy of a molecule of respect by anyone. He's part of the problem in Washington, not the solution.

The Repubs could have opposed Obamacare, if they would have stood with Cruz to de-fund it.

The Repubs could have even opposed Obama on many things as the minority, but even as a majority, they don't do shit.

The Dems don't play by the rules to get their way. If you love Freedom, America, & our way of life, we need to quit playing by the Democrats rules.

I am less worried about the next 15 months than I am the time between November 5th and January 20th.

With nothing to lose, Zippy can do a lot of harm

quote:

It takes 60 votes in the Senate to shut off debate. There wasn't enough votes to do that.

Keep debating then.
Make them talk until they are blue in the face, and then call the vote.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

It takes 60 votes in the Senate to shut off debate. There wasn't enough votes to do that.

Keep debating then.
Make them talk until they are blue in the face, and then call the vote.

You still need 60 votes to do it. In the meantime, everything else comes to a standstill except public opinion. When the government was shut down recently (a farce but what the hey!) everyone bitched and moaned and claimed all sorts of political damage.

Then you need 67 votes for the veto. I'm not buying that McConnell is as dumb or as dishonest as you try to make him out. It is more likely that he is having to make the best of a poor hand.

Some of it is numbers, some of it is will on the part of some Senators and no way to make them.

When you control the House, and you control the Senate, and you whine about "a poor hand," something tells me that even if you come to control the executive, you'll find something to whine about. Maybe not controlling the legislative. This crew of Republicans, with only a few exceptions, are spineless empty suits who only care about their own political careers. After the landslide of '14, they have done NOTHING. They were going to repeal Obamacare. They were going to secure the border. Remember?

They hope we don't. And they believe we are just that dumb.

Whatever becomes of Trump's run for the presidency, his success thus far, leading the pack-- Donald Fucking Trump!!-- shows just how much anger there is out there, and the extent of peoples' disgust with professional politicians.

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
When you control the House, and you control the Senate, and you whine about "a poor hand," something tells me that even if you come to control the executive, you'll find something to whine about. Maybe not controlling the legislative. This crew of Republicans, with only a few exceptions, are spineless empty suits who only care about their own political careers. After the landslide of '14, they have done NOTHING. They were going to repeal Obamacare. They were going to secure the border. Remember?

They hope we don't. And they believe we are just that dumb.

Whatever becomes of Trump's run for the presidency, his success thus far, leading the pack-- Donald Fucking Trump!!-- shows just how much anger there is out there, and the extent of peoples' disgust with professional politicians.

With respect, I don't think you understand how the Senate rules work. To do what you want, you need 60 votes to shut off debate in most circumstances. "Control" means you have a majority, your guy is Majority Leader, your guys are chairmen of committees and you have a majority on those committees. You get better offices. It does NOT mean that you get to vote on everything you want, or can do anything you want.

Last night there was a bill to defund Planned Parenthood. Even in the House, procedures require a "rule" to bring to the floor. In the Senate, it takes 60 votes to shut off debate and call for a vote. They had 53 votes to shut off debate, so no vote on the measure will be held.

The Majority Leader can bring it up again in the future if he votes on the losing side, so despite that McConnell favors this, he voted "no" to preserve his option as Majority Leader.

They may be right. Some are that dumb, or at least they act that way.

I don't know whether it will happen in the Fox debate, but I feel sure this will happen: The MSM now realizes that they can't sink Trump by trying to get him to apologize. He's not apologizing. And, by the way, Fuck you. So that ain't working. What they will switch to is: Trump knows nothing about geopolitics. He's not dumb,exactly, but ignorant-- not ready for the prime time political stage.

It will be the same kind of thing they did to Sarah Palin when some MSM asshole said, "What do you think of the Bush Doctrine in Iraq?" Almost nobody had ever used the term, "The Bush Doctrine." Palin seemed flummoxed, and they used that to "show" that she knew nothing about international politics and would be a disaster as VP. (She's a disaster in other ways.)

I don't think they will catch Trump this way either. He just is not intimidated by them at all. He knows they are hacks, lackeys of the Democrat Party, careerist assholes, so they hold no sway over him. I think if they had pulled the "Bush Doctrine" thing on Trump it would have gone something like this:

"What do you mean by 'The Bush Doctrine'"?

"Well, that is what I'm asking you. I want you to identify and define it. That's my question to you, Mr. Trump."

"You're using a term I haven't heard. If you want to tell me what you mean by it, I'll answer your question. If not, ask me another question."

And by the way, Fuck you.

He won't say that, but that's what everybody will hear. And appreciate.

JALLEN, I bow to your greater knowledge of Congressional procedures. (And no sarcasm there.) Others here have pointed out stronger responses McConnell could have made. To me, that Boehner and McConnell are patsies of Obama and the Democrats is so obvious that focusing on a particular vote on one item-- and seeing it in one way-- is missing the forest for the trees.

And actually I don't think you are generally satisfied with Boehner's and McConnell's actions.... I'm probably just much less gentlemanly, and more vulgar, than you. (To your credit.)

Rather than lamenting the integrity and/or incompetence of Mr. McConnell, let's consider what would happen given the following scenario....

1 - The senate and house belonged to the DEM's.
2 - Reid was the majority leader in the senate.
3 - A republican sat in the White House.

If the DEM's and Reid wanted to pass a defunding bill and send it to the president, how successful would they be? Somehow, my bet is that bill would reach the president's desk in a matter of days, and Republicans in Congress would be shut completely out of the process, while the Republican president would be put on the spot to sign or veto the bill.

Isn't it funny how dirty Harry always got through what he wanted but poor Mitchie just can't seem to find a way to do the same.

I confess I do not know the ins & outs of how exactly the Legislative branch works. I have some idea, but dont know everything.

What I do know is, there are ways to control votes, to de-fund certain things, & ways for a smaller group to control what happens.

I also know that the Repubs can't do shit. Or won't do shit. The Dems get their way, no matter how many seats they have.

JAllen, as an example, why couldn't the Repubs have stuck with Ted Cruz when he tried to de-fund Obamacare? I thinks it's because the Repubs want 0-Care also. & Cruz maybe an actual conservative, & they don't want him to be a leader, or get any traction. I think the majority of Repubs are sell outs, love big .gov, & are crooked lawyers, who take in millions of dollars for theirselves.

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
JALLEN, I bow to your greater knowledge of Congressional procedures. (And no sarcasm there.) Others here have pointed out stronger responses McConnell could have made. To me, that Boehner and McConnell are patsies of Obama and the Democrats is so obvious that focusing on a particular vote on one item-- and seeing it in one way-- is missing the forest for the trees.

And actually I don't think you are generally satisfied with Boehner's and McConnell's actions.... I'm probably just much less gentlemanly, and more vulgar, than you. (To your credit.)

Not at all. I don't think, from what I can see and understand about the process, incomplete and inexperienced as I am, that McConnell has sold out as some have said, and neither has Boehner. They can't just pull votes from where the sun don't shine. House rules make it somewhat easier, of course, but there are more cats in the herd.

Republicans have a majority, and that gives them certain advantages, chairmanships, the Majority Leadership etc. but that does not mean they can do anything they like, or jump over tall buildings in a single bound.

On issues where 60 votes can shut debate, they can proceed, get a vote and be on their way. Don't think Harry Reid got everything his way as he liked. He had the same rules until they changed them last Congress. Thankfully, the new leadership returned the rules to the traditional ones, consistent with the opposition they had when the God Damned Commies changed them.

I would like someone to set out the game plan for getting these things passed within the rules, other then what has been done. The procedural rules are complex, in many cases one Senator can stop these maneuvers by objection.

When things happen that you agree with, these are statesmen brimming with talent and integrity. When things don't go that way, the leadership is giving blow jobs to the President, kissing his behind, must have deep dark ghosts in their past they are afraid of being repealed and more besides. I use "you" in the collective sense rather than the personal.

Grow up, for crying out loud! A serious discussion of realities and issues is helpful and interesting. Blowing off steam, libeling these officials, may be therapeutic but not enlightening, and is disgusting and demeaning.

I remember hearing John Connally talk about Lyndon Johnson, that Johnson was not a man who tilted at windmills. He only fought when he thought he could win, and when he thought the time was right and the support was there, he fought to win.

Johnson knew the rules, was a master of procedure, and was totally devoted to politics and power. He knew each Senator, sometimes better than their spouse, what they could do, couldn't do, dreamed of doing, what their strengths were, what their vices were. In many cases, he had used his control over Brown and Root funding to help many win their elections. They owed him. He studied every issue, knew all the advantages and disadvantages, all the objections he might face and thought of all the arguments to overcome those objections and was determined to win no matter what. He was determined to get your vote and whatever it took, he did.

Even when he favored a certain measure, if he concluded the necessary support was not there, he waited, not pressing the issue strongly, until he figured it had adequate support.

He was majority leader in the '50's, when Eisenhower was President. Eisenhower realized that if Johnson supported a proposal, it would happen. If he did not, there wasn't anything Eisenhower could do about it. Sam Rayburn, the Speaker of the House, had the same influence in the House. The 3 men met often, discussed what they wanted done, and that was what happened.

I don't think you can stand to have a Lyndon Johnson type in the job of majority leader, unless he always does things your way. He was a complete weasel in every sense, but very effective at getting things through the Senate, whether you agreed with him or not.

quote:

He was a complete weasel in every sense, but very effective at getting things through the Senate, whether you agreed with him or not.

Sounds like Harry Reid.