quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
this book is entirely about bible translations

https://a.co/d/dUsafX9

Other's have said this and I'll echo it, read the new testament first.


Regarding a denomination, you're allowed to shop around. I hold to Matthew 12:31 very closely, I refuse to exclude any from the church. But, it's very clear there is and there is not a way to behave, God is the only one you need to get square with not me.

I personally am reformed and accept the Westminster confession readable here
https://learn.ligonier.org/art...ter-confession-faith

Lutherans hold to the Augsburg confession
https://bookofconcord.org/augsburg-confession/

Episcopalians(Non-liberal Church of England) hold to the 39 articles
https://www.anglicancommunion....cles-of-Religion.pdf

Further, this guy on youtube does videos on denominations and what they believe
https://www.youtube.com/@ReadyToHarvest/videos

Thanks. Will take a look and try to learn.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Sounds like I can largely be denomination agnostic. Although I checked some of the local churches and a few seem to be more open and liberal than I would prefer these days. Perhaps un-christian of me and not the mindset I should have. Perhaps later; for now, I want to make sure I stick to fundamental, conservative, original views uncorrupted by liberal biases.

My wife, who was an elder at the time, left her large congregation Presbyterian church of several decades when the pastor declared from the pulpit "anyone who supports Trump cannot call themselves a Christian!" That was far from the only expression of his leftist orientation, but it was the last straw. She found another church (same denomination) shortly thereafter whose pastor shuns political statements of any kind. She reports that the parishioners in her new church seem to be more friendly and much less snobby.

My point is that it may have been the pastor who set off your whack-o-meter rather than any sort of denominational differences. Keep looking.

quote:

My point is that it may have been the pastor who set off your whack-o-meter rather than any sort of denominational differences. Keep looking.

Yes, you're probably right. I perhaps misspoke.

The college that I attended for my freshman year a required every student to take at least one course in religion. I opted for "Philosophy Of The Old Testament Prophets."

This course examined the writings of a number of the Old Testament prophets with respect to the environment in which they lived, looking at various aspects that would have affected them -- social, political, etc.

A very interesting liberal arts course, especially for a science (math) major.

Hello,

A couple of books that might be of interest:
How to read the bible for all it’s worth
And
How to read the Bible book by book

Both are written by Gordon Fee and Douglas Stewart.

In one of the posts above someone mentioned the online Youversion Bible app. This is a great suggestion.

Silent

The problem with some "Christian" churches today and from their origination, are not really Christian at all and are only lumped into "Christianity" because they do not fit anything else.

I don't mean to offend some and I do say this out of love, from what I have learned, I would not recommend the BSF. They allow many beliefs into their organization-Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, etc. and they state they are all welcome into their Bible study with their own versions of "their bibles", which is sadly very wrong.

Don't get me wrong, it is good they want other denominations/people to come but they allow other beliefs/systems into the group that are not textually correct and offer a false doctrine, salvation and a false Jesus by allowing it to continue. They don't condemn or correct others in their Bible studies/services and allow false doctrines to continue spreading.

Another words, there are many versions of the Bible but not all are derived from the same original text and many religions "add" additional things into the the original text and change it. The Bible is the Word of God and not something to be played around with or that can be changed to tickle our ears. Some religions/doctrines do just that.

They have added, for example, man made ways to salvation in that you have to work for your salvation and because of that they take away from what the apostles taught. I am paraphrasing but do look it up- that we are saved by GRACE through faith and not of works, it is the gift of God lest any man should boast-Ephesians 2:8-9. The apostle Paul used the word "grace" over 100 times in his writings/epistles to show how we are saved and works have nothing to do with your salvation. Works are something we show and do because Christ taught us how we should treat each other. For example, the Book of James teaches us about the works we should do for/to others as a testimony of our faith. James writes if you see someone hungry or naked, we should help them and give them what they need. If we just tell them to depart,be warm and be filled without helping them, what example are we of Christ to them and what good did it do them? Is that what Jesus would do? Of course not. He wants us to love our neighbors as ourselves. I am not the best Christian all the time but I pray and rely on Jesus to change me in the Holy Spirit. My salvation is based on what Christ did on the cross and His resurrection and my faith in Him.

When others preach a doctrine not taught by what the apostles wrote and add things you need to do, they are preaching a false gospel and should be told of such and not allow "their" doctrines to lead others astray.

While I have no affiliation with it, look at the website C.A.R.M. or Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry to help you with your walk. The website offers a great amount of info. on "world religions" and you can make up your own mind.

I became a christian while in the Navy on June 3, 1979. I started going to church a few months after getting out of the Navy in May 1982. Even on vacation, we make it a point to go find a church. Since 1982, I've been a regular member of only 4 churches. This last one is because we moved states. I become involved in whichever church I go to. At this last church in the beginning when the regulars asked me what made me decide to be in this church, I told people, "It's because God told me these people need all the help they can get." And I still give that answer.

I tell you all that about me to tell you that I think you are where I am in the beginning and, therefore, since you haven't been to church for a while, you should buy as many biblical topic books as you want and study the bible on your own. You can even just study the Bible by itself. I tell people it's the only book in the world that when you open to study it, the author shows up to help you understand it.

As you read the bible, then you can start to learn what topics you want to learn more and study that. I'm sure you can even just do it for free - in terms of topical studies. YuoVerse is a free bible app that contains several dozens of bible translations and it also comes with devotionals or study plans.

You can decide you want to read books about the individual books in the bible like Genesis, Matthew, Galatians, etc. Or you can decide you want to study a survey of topics like Great Doctrines of the Bible. Or concentrate on specific topics - cosmology (doctrine of creation), soteriology (doctrine of salvation), eschatology (end times), christology (study of christ), etc..

Understand that on the same topics and different books, especially eschatology, you're going to get different and conflicting interpretations. But as you study the bible and form your own understanding of these topics, then you can look for a church that will match your temperament and your positions on biblical topic. I think this is the shortest path to you finding the church that you will like and grow in.

When we go looking for churches, we sometimes go to 2 or 3 different churches on a Sunday. We get a feel of the people, the service, and the sermon and compare to what we already know what we're looking for. Hence, I suggest you study the Bible for some time by yourself so that you can come up with what you're looking for. You don't go looking out for cars without doing your homework as to what you're looking for in a car, right? Why do less for when you're looking for a church.

As for translations, New American Standard 1995 or 2020 is known as the most accurate translation but the most difficult to understand because of its accuracy. The King James Version is flowery but also difficult to read to to its archaic English, the New King James Version makes it more readable while keeping the flowery prose.

ESV and NIV are in between the NASB and the KJV. They sacrifice some of the accuracy by editorializing to convey what they think the passage is intending to communicate. The KJV and the NASB also has "editorializing" but they minimize it for the sake of accuracy at the expense of readability. The YouVerse have all these versions and more. The Literal Word app has only the NASB 1995, The Legacy Standard Bible, ESV, and the KJV. What I like about the Literal Word app is you can click on a particular word and it will display in the footnote what the word is in the original language and its basic definition along with other places in the Bible where that word is found.

For a source of study books on biblical topics, I recommend ChristianBook.com

Thanks guys. And thanks Rey for your suggestions based on your experiences. I think that's where I was trending - study the Word a bit, perhaps join a study group then perhaps find a church.

What's not clear to me is whether there are study groups that are independent of particular local churches. Or if study groups only form from w/in a church. Perhaps more of the latter. If so, I may be on my own until if/when I'm comfortable and know what church I would like to join.

Also, I was planning to study sequentially. I wasn't aware that one could study based on topics or devotionals or doctrines. I think I'll still start sequentially. Get through one pass of Old and New. Then decide how next to study.

It may sound odd but faith and my desire to actually join a church at this point are not exactly aligned.

I going to buy an ESV study bible. I think that will help me get started. I just hope I can find one w/ large enough print. Maybe it's better if I get Old and New testaments in separate books - large print but separate books to keep the thickness and weight down.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Thanks guys. And thanks Rey for your suggestions based on your experiences. I think that's where I was trending - study the Word a bit, perhaps join a study group then perhaps find a church.

What's not clear to me is whether there are study groups that are independent of particular local churches. Or if study groups only form from w/in a church. Perhaps more of the latter. If so, I may be on my own until if/when I'm comfortable and know what church I would like to join.

Also, I was planning to study sequentially. I wasn't aware that one could study based on topics or devotionals or doctrines. I think I'll still start sequentially. Get through one pass of Old and New. Then decide how next to study.

It may sound odd but faith and my desire to actually join a church at this point are not exactly aligned.

I going to buy an ESV study bible. I think that will help me get started. I just hope I can find one w/ large enough print. Maybe it's better if I get Old and New testaments in separate books - large print but separate books to keep the thickness and weight down.

At this point, if I were you, I would be leery of joining any bible study group not associated with an actual church. If it's associated with a church, you have an idea of their basic doctrines.

The things you will learn from studying the bible fall into two categories: essentials and nonessentials.

There are the essentials you will need to know in order to be considered within Christendom and believing differently from those essentials put you outside of orthodox Christianity.

Then there are the nonessentials on which different Christians within Christianity beli8eve differently. There are sects that believe the only true bible is the King James Version. There's the joke that if Old English was good enough for Jesus and the apostles, then it should be good enough for us. But those who believe in KJV Only are quite serious about it. Other issues that Christians may divide on would be Predestination - Once Saved, Always Saved versus Freewill and the ability to fall away, whether babies should be baptized, whether speaking in tongues should be sought after to experience the fullness of the Holy Spirit or whether tongues have ceased and anyone speaking in tongues is suspect, etc. etc. Those fall under the nonessentials because they fall outside the core doctrines of orthodox Christianity.

The problem lies in that people tend to major in the minors and like to spend time debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

A further complication, which I am realizing, as I have been delving on cataloging essentials and nonessentials of Christianity is that it is apparent that the dividing line between the essentials and non-essentials may not be readily apparent.

An attempt to catalog the essentials early in Christianity is the Apostle's Creed which best estimates say was in the 2nd Century at a time when the New Testament was not established until near the end of the 4th century and the various letters that came to form the New Testament were being passed around separately.

That is why I suggest getting grounded in the Bible by yourself first before exposing yourself to external influences.

In terms of studying in sequence, the common adage is to begin in the New Testament first before going to the Old Testament. The adage of hindsight is 20/20 applies in that it is easier to understand the events in the past of the Old Testament when you've understand the fulfilment in the New Testament.

It's pretty evident that the New Testament is all about Jesus. Knowing how the New Testament reveals the first coming of Jesus and His second coming will help you recognize how the Old Testament foretells the coming of Jesus.

From the very first mention of the promise in Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between you (the serpent) and the woman, and between your seed and her seed He shall bruise you on the head, and you shall bruise him on the heel." This is termed the protoevangelium or first gospel.

To the picture of Noah who is a type of Jesus by building the ark who saved 7 people before anyone knew what rain was. Noah did the work of building the ark and all his family had to do was believe. They demonstrated their belief by entering the ark.

God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, the son of God's promise. Abraham was set to obey and at the last moment, God provided the ram (Genesis 22). This gives the picture that while a sacrifice is required by God, it is God who will provide the sacrifice in place of Isaac and every other person.

Joseph was a foreshadowing of Christ when he was sold into slavery into Egypt by his brothers, falsely accused by his master's wife so that he ended up in jail. But all that transpired so that Joseph could save many people just as Jesus had to suffer to save many people.

Even Exodus shows the salvation plan that includes Jesus. Moses who led the Israelites out of slavery from Egypt gave the Law to the Israelites in the wilderness for them to live by. But Moses himself did not enter the promised land. Do you know who led the Israelites into the promised land? Joshua. Joshua is the English form of the Hebrew name Yeshua which means The Lord is Salvation or Yahweh is salvation. Do you know the Greek form of the same name Yeshua? Jesus.

Jesus shares the same name as the guy who took over from Moses who is associated with the Law and led God's children into the Promised Land. In the same way, Jesus is the one who leads God's children into the heavenly Promised Land.

Reading the Old Testament through the context of the New Testament is like collecting the keys first in the New Testament so that you can unlock the treasure chests hidden in plain sight in the Old Testament.

Are there any Evangelical Free churches in your area?
I attend one in my area and I do go to bible study though not in the summer due to vacations. This may be a problem in your area till school starts.

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
That is why I suggest getting grounded in the Bible by yourself first before exposing yourself to external influences.

Big agreement with this.^^^

I have the same opinion of Bible groups and organized religion as I do of the court system. The Law is the Law. Why is it different depending on what judge is interpreting it? The Word is the Word. Why is it different depending on what preacher or group is interpreting it?

I can read. And my relationship with God is stronger than it ever was during my RC upbringing because of it.

Thanks guys. Thanks Rey - starting w/ the New Testament is not intuitive so appreciate the tip.

I'll start there then.

My problem starts with the KJV which is very difficult to read for me. Especially upon understanding that the words may not have the same meaning as written as the denotation and/or connotation would be today.

I think the ESV version will help, as will as Study version (I never new Study version existed until this thread). Study version may alleviate the need to join a study group for the short term (at least one full pass through both testaments).

I still recommend a NIV bible for a clearer idea of what they're saying.

Thanks. I'll look into the NIV, especially if the ESV study version is still too difficult. I'll start with what sounds like the mama bear version and go from there. All I know right now is that the KJV is almost unintelligible off the cuff.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

I think the ESV version will help, as will as Study version (I never new Study version existed until this thread). Study version may alleviate the need to join a study group for the short term (at least one full pass through both testaments).

I don't want to over contribute to the thread but a realization / simile just hit me that you may appreciate.

A Study Bible would pretty be the same as joining a study group in that you will be influenced by the perspectives of the author of the study. That's not saying it's bad; I'm stating the obvious for your consideration.

The analogy that came to me is wanting to study the Bible is like wanting to study martial arts. What martial arts don't have is an orginal source material of martial arts. But similar to different churches and various study groups, going to one is like going to a specific dojo - karate, judo, bjj, etc. All these fall under martial arts but each is different from the other as doctrines, emphasis, and culture are different from one church denomination / bible study group to the next.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Thanks guys. Thanks Rey - starting w/ the New Testament is not intuitive so appreciate the tip.

I'll start there then.

Interesting point as it never occurred to me to start anywhere except with the New Testament, granted I was a child and that is how I was introduce to religion...weekly attendance at church, memorizing passages to be spewed out on demand for relatives, bearing witness. etc

When I got older, I did find the Old Testament much more interesting...which also started my journey into studying the Mother Church and Judaism

quote:

My problem starts with the KJV which is very difficult to read for me. Especially upon understanding that the words may not have the same meaning as written as the denotation and/or connotation would be today.

I has been a number of years since I've looked to see how language has changed from when I last read my bible...it's an old leather bound one

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
The analogy that came to me is wanting to study the Bible is like wanting to study martial arts. What martial arts don't have is an orginal source material of martial arts. But similar to different churches and various study groups, going to one is like going to a specific dojo - karate, judo, bjj, etc. All these fall under martial arts but each is different from the other as doctrines, emphasis, and culture are different from one church denomination / bible study group to the next.

That is a very good analogy.

My study of the different martial arts is what brought me back to Tai Chi as a foundational art

You can start wherever you would like as far as denomination. Generally, any from the major Christian protestant denominations will be similar on 98% of doctrine. There is some gray area when it comes to a few things, of course. I grew up in the Pentecostal churches, my father was a pastor and evangelist, but currently I attend a Southern Baptist church. We have an incredibly rich Bible study group that is taught by volunteers in the class. The key is to have mature Christians that teach and that you can learn from and then to read the Bible and study it to discern truth. You will have to put in your work and you should pray about what you read for God to give you understanding. There is no amount of temporal wisdom that will allow you to "understand the Bible" or the ways of God. This comes through supernatural revelation by the Holy Spirit. That may sound daunting but it is a gift freely given for those who seek.

There is a lot on the internet, of course, but you must always be wary. I highly recommend The The Bible Project on Youtube as a 30,000 ft of popular Bible stores, themes, and individual books. Their How to Read the Bible videos are a really great starting point.

I also recommend the God's Word For You series of books for more focused study on individual books or segments of books.

I agree that you should start with the New Testament but that is because I believe your ultimate end goal should be to develop a relationship with Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, not to understand Christianity (or Judaism) as a religion. Those are two very different things. The OT is a rich history, it is God's word, and it absolutely points to Christ and it is amazing to see those themes unfold and prophecies be fulfilled. But, Jesus' words are literally Life, and they begin in Matthew and focusing on who Jesus is and what he wants for you is paramount.

Also, you can almost assuredly attend a church and any classes it offers without ever joining or doing anything official. Go to a church with people you like, unless you find that they are teaching something that is not in the Bible (that is where your own personal study and prayer is important.) If you like the people you will want to go.

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:
Go to a church with people you like, unless you find that they are teaching something that is not in the Bible (that is where your own personal study and prayer is important.) If you like the people you will want to go.

This is part of my problem in getting started. I don't have any friends who go to church. I don't really have any friends. And there isn't really anybody in my neighborhood that I like. Choosing based on who I like and associate with nearby is not possible for me.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:
Go to a church with people you like, unless you find that they are teaching something that is not in the Bible (that is where your own personal study and prayer is important.) If you like the people you will want to go.

This is part of my problem in getting started. I don't have any friends who go to church. I don't really have any friends. And there isn't really anybody in my neighborhood that I like. Choosing based on who I like and associate with nearby is not possible for me.

Well I'm more talking about new people at the church. Are they welcoming, non-judgemental, and kind?

Learning something on your own is difficult, though not impossible. But you will have a much richer experience if you can share in the journey with others. You'll have to put yourself out there a bit.