quote:

Originally posted by Phantom229:

quote:

Originally posted by maximus_flavius:


Your post just comes off like “your doin everybody a favor”. I’m sorry that you don’t get paid during a shutdown, I don’t condone it. But it’s not my fault, & it’s not gonna change. Blame Congress.

I work for the flying public, so maybe I’m not doing “everyone” a favor but I do work for them. My job isn’t one where I can just walk into another tower and say “hey, I want to work here”. I appreciate you not condoning the not getting paid. What got my goat was people saying “keep the shutdown going” without really understanding who it really affects. I blame every single member of Congress every time this happens. I want them to be considered essential furloughed employees and withhold their pay till they can figure their shit out.

No offense, but you are a very small cog in a very large wheel.

I personally feel the shutdown is great. It’s something Repubs should have been using all along. We never get any compromise from the Democrats ON ANYTHING because they know Repubs are too scared to shutdown the gov. If this is what it takes to get the Wall funded, or to get Dems to compromise, then it’s all well worth it for our country.

A lot of people work in the private sector where layoffs, buyouts, mergers, & all kind of shit goes wrong in their job. Small business owners & entrepenuers aren’t guaranteed an income. I can’t feel sorry for gov employees 1 bit. To be bluntly honest, I don’t care who the shutdown effects. You knew this was a possibility involved with your job. If you don’t like, enter a different field altogether.

I’m not being a prick, just telling you how millions of privately employed tax payers see it.

I would love for Congress to not get paid. I would also love it if Congress (collectively) went & jumped off a cliff.

PS, I personally think it’d be great if y’all all just walked off the job & didn’t come back until y’all get regular pay. Shutdown the airports. TSA wild have nobody to grope, the airlines wouldn’t have people packed in planes like cattle, & the airlines would go broke. That would be a huge WIN for America, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Phantom229:
I blame every single member of Congress every time this happens. I want them to be considered essential furloughed employees and withhold their pay till they can figure their shit out.

They are certainly not essential. I prefer a plan where any time there isn’t a budget they lose all pay until there is one. No salary, no per diem, no pay for any of their staff. They don’t get “made whole” when the problem is solved, that is all just money lost. Maybe if problems they created stung a little bit they’d make less problems.

quote:

Originally posted by maximus_flavius:
PS, I personally think it’d be great if y’all all just walked off the job & didn’t come back until y’all get regular pay. Shutdown the airports. TSA wild have nobody to grope, the airlines wouldn’t have people packed in planes like cattle, & the airlines would go broke. That would be a huge WIN for America, IMO.

They tried that in ‘81, they all got fired.

quote:

A lot of people work in the private sector where layoffs, buyouts, mergers, & all kind of shit goes wrong in their job. Small business owners & entrepenuers aren’t guaranteed an income. I can’t feel sorry for gov employees 1 bit. To be bluntly honest, I don’t care who the shutdown effects. You knew this was a possibility involved with your job. If you don’t like, enter a different field altogether.

I’m not being a prick, just telling you how millions of privately employed tax payers see it.

While I certainly understand the frustration that all taxpayers feel, I just want to point out that there are thousands of Active Duty Coast Guard Men and Women out executing the eleven statutory missions we are charged with who will not be paid on the 15th if the government does not reopen. Many of these men and women are serving alongside DOD counterparts who are fortunately for them fully funded.

quote:

Originally posted by CoastieLT:

quote:

A lot of people work in the private sector where layoffs, buyouts, mergers, & all kind of shit goes wrong in their job. Small business owners & entrepenuers aren’t guaranteed an income. I can’t feel sorry for gov employees 1 bit. To be bluntly honest, I don’t care who the shutdown effects. You knew this was a possibility involved with your job. If you don’t like, enter a different field altogether.

I’m not being a prick, just telling you how millions of privately employed tax payers see it.

While I certainly understand the frustration that all taxpayers feel, I just want to point out that there are thousands of Active Duty Coast Guard Men and Women out executing the eleven statutory missions we are charged with who will not be paid on the 15th if the government does not reopen. Many of these men and women are serving alongside DOD counterparts who are fortunately for them fully funded.

Yeah but you have to understand that if it doesn’t directly effect him, he doesn’t give a shit and just suggest something totally unreasonable. I mean, the Coast Guard members chose that job and if they don’t like it, they can just go find a new job....

Yes, my SO is federal LEO and is working alongside active duty military who are getting paid while she isn't.

Their work is not duplicative but complimentary and when she is furloughed all work comes to an abrupt end. There is no civilian equivalent to what she does and she can't just give two weeks notice and waltz into a lateral new job.

So there is wide agreement that we need border funding but the people who this impacts over Washington politics is a bit bitter to accept. Trump needs to hold out otherwise I fear his presidency is over but the employees who provide law enforcement on behalf of the public are not the ones who should be made to hurt.

No one here would go to a job where you might be told you're going to go to work, not get paid for some indeterminate length of time and you'll need an act of Congress to get your back pay. The is no civilian equivalent to that, period.

I must admit to mixed feelings on the shutdown. My late stepfather worked for the Government and got furloughed a few times. I would absolutely love to see the big shots who use this as a political football go without pay so that they can see what it is like for regular people. I support the wall on the border and if this is what had to be done to get it then so be it.

By the way, I have heard mention in the press that some programs that provide food and other benefits will no longer be available after a certain date if the shutdown continues. While no doubt this would hurt some people, my concern is that "the usual suspects" would try to gin up a few protests and riots in order to both get their political points across.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
No one here would go to a job where you might be told you're going to go to work, not get paid for some indeterminate length of time and you'll need an act of Congress to get your back pay. The is no civilian equivalent to that, period.

“You'll need an act of Congress to get your back pay.”
That’s a pretty weak point to make.
The governement will not be shutdown forever.
This is not like a company that completely goes under and workers do not ever receive pay for work performed.
Yes I have seen this in the civilian sector.
Lawsuits can not make the owner have money again.

Tell us about the federal pay scale and retirement benefits.
There are many benefits to being a federal worker are there not?

Life is not as green as we see it on the other side of the fence.
We all struggle at times.
This is not to say that I don’t have sympathy for those with bills waiting on a paycheck, I do.
However, government shutdowns are a known likely event which should be planned for.

There is a middle ground. There are essential jobs, not defined by what the government calls "essential". Flight controllers, LEO, Military, border administrators, and jobs dealing with life/safety or "well-being" impact on others. The shutdown is affecting people, yet the general public is seeing that is doesn't affect their own lives. Therefore, there is room for review.

There is a large amount of government waste due to redundancy, to inefficiency, and to just plain stupidity. It occurs in the healthcare industry by the billions. Those who are personally affected by the government shutdown see this from the inside looking out - so they are right to be upset, frightened, angry. The general public tends to generalize, and they are also upset over the government impasse and the perceived inefficiency. But there is a middle ground to cut a lot of the inefficiency and redundancy. (Stupidity might be asking for too much.)

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
No one here would go to a job where you might be told you're going to go to work, not get paid for some indeterminate length of time and you'll need an act of Congress to get your back pay. The is no civilian equivalent to that, period.

“You'll need an act of Congress to get your back pay.”
That’s a pretty weak point to make.
The governement will not be shutdown forever.
This is not like a company that completely goes under and workers do not ever receive pay for work performed.
Yes I have seen this in the civilian sector.
Lawsuits can not make the owner have money again.

Tell us about the federal pay scale and retirement benefits.
There are many benefits to being a federal worker are there not?

Life is not as green as we see it on the other side of the fence.
We all struggle at times.
This is not to say that I don’t have sympathy for those with bills waiting on a paycheck, I do.
However, government shutdowns are a known likely event which should be planned for.

In RL I work on behalf of management and I see the union contracts with all the large unions, the things that are grieved and where the crumbs are hidden in each contract and that includes the benefits. My SO is a federal employee so I have a very clear view of both sides.

I think you have a misperception that all federal employees standing around propping up shovels while just one does the work. Far from it.

My SO is not a member of a federal union and has no benefits that are arrived at by way of a collective bargining agreement. She has no benefits as an indirect result of any union.

She will see a 1% pension for each year after 20 years of service. So even 30% after 30 years of service is not riches when it will cost $1.50 for a postage stamp. Like the private sector, even after she vests but continues to work, it's only a small increase for every additional year, much like waiting to collect SS.

Benefits also mirror the civilian side - she has to pay a portion of her healthcare premium like every one else. Time off is 2 weeks a year, plus sick time.

There's one great difference from the private to the .gov side that no one seems or wants to grasp. On the civilian side people are RIFd, layoffs, consolidations, acquistions, changing the physical location, being subject to recall if laid off and all that stuff, including the facility closing completely. But no where on the civilian side does the employer have the right to say that the employees are now being told they will work their usual job without pay for the forseeable future and when there's money again, you may or may not be paid back.

Furloughed employees can file for unemployment although I think the max benefits varies by state but doesn't exceed $450/week. That's the upper limit and is no way a wage replacement to cover expeneses. The other thing that most federal employees contemplate is that if they receive unemployment and then receive retro pay, there is a repayment obligation for the unemployment. Add into that the most states have a waiting period of at least a week so there's that to consider too and taken as a whole, it's a CF to sort out especially if the shutdown is short.

Lastly, historically the federal employees do receive their back pay however since Congress appropriates the money for funding, it truly takes an act of Congress to restore the lost wages. The House has to initiate the obligation of the nation to spend the money, the Senate agrees and the President signs it as part of the funding so no, I was not being melodramatic. That's part of the Constitution since Day 1.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
we could probably eliminate 75% of the government and have a far better country, more efficient government and less waste, fraud and corruption

but we'd have an awful lot of unemployed democrats, socialists and leftists with no particular skill set other than leeching

Maybe Trump is using this shutdown to "drain the swamp", the crafty ole devil.

I have a NEXUS card on hold until the shutdown is over. I guess the border patrol considers it low priority/non essential. Oh well.....BUILD THE WALL

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
No one here would go to a job where you might be told you're going to go to work, not get paid for some indeterminate length of time and you'll need an act of Congress to get your back pay. The is no civilian equivalent to that, period.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I disagree strongly with that position. Try owning your own business that is an essential service for people. One is constantly at the mercy of large entities that frequently change their payment arrangements. Small business owners do not depend upon a steady paycheck. However, I would never have it any other way.

quote:

Originally posted by CoastieLT:

quote:

A lot of people work in the private sector where layoffs, buyouts, mergers, & all kind of shit goes wrong in their job. Small business owners & entrepenuers aren’t guaranteed an income. I can’t feel sorry for gov employees 1 bit. To be bluntly honest, I don’t care who the shutdown effects. You knew this was a possibility involved with your job. If you don’t like, enter a different field altogether.

I’m not being a prick, just telling you how millions of privately employed tax payers see it.

While I certainly understand the frustration that all taxpayers feel, I just want to point out that there are thousands of Active Duty Coast Guard Men and Women out executing the eleven statutory missions we are charged with who will not be paid on the 15th if the government does not reopen. Many of these men and women are serving alongside DOD counterparts who are fortunately for them fully funded.

My understanding was that the USCG was getting paid. Is this wrong?

quote:

Originally posted by Kasinefect:
By the way, I have heard mention in the press that some programs that provide food and other benefits will no longer be available after a certain date if the shutdown continues. While no doubt this would hurt some people, my concern is that "the usual suspects" would try to gin up a few protests and riots in order to both get their political points across.

Please direct them to my town.

quote:

Originally posted by Phantom229:

quote:

Originally posted by CoastieLT:

quote:

A lot of people work in the private sector where layoffs, buyouts, mergers, & all kind of shit goes wrong in their job. Small business owners & entrepenuers aren’t guaranteed an income. I can’t feel sorry for gov employees 1 bit. To be bluntly honest, I don’t care who the shutdown effects. You knew this was a possibility involved with your job. If you don’t like, enter a different field altogether.

I’m not being a prick, just telling you how millions of privately employed tax payers see it.

While I certainly understand the frustration that all taxpayers feel, I just want to point out that there are thousands of Active Duty Coast Guard Men and Women out executing the eleven statutory missions we are charged with who will not be paid on the 15th if the government does not reopen. Many of these men and women are serving alongside DOD counterparts who are fortunately for them fully funded.

Yeah but you have to understand that if it doesn’t directly effect him, he doesn’t give a shit and just suggest something totally unreasonable. I mean, the Coast Guard members chose that job and if they don’t like it, they can just go find a new job....

I’d bet that you don’t care wit about the troubles of a small business owner, no insurance benefits, no taxpayer funded retirement, no steady paycheck, etc.

You knew this was a possibility, going back to at least ‘81. If you don’t like it, change jobs. No one in the private sector has guarantees either.

Such is life.

What damfool decided air traffic control was "non-essential?"

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Originally posted by fpuhan:
What damfool decided air traffic control was "non-essential?"

Better question, why is the goddamn gov't running air traffic, the airlines could do a better job of it.

Just like security, the goddam gov't has that all fucked up too.