seems to me that's 800,000 people we never needed in the 1st place!

Have a few friends who work for the US Forest Service. From November to April they do VERY LITTLE. One of those Agencies that could be cut by 90% and we probably wouldn't notice it.

I understand you can no longer poop in a national park. But the crapper in Pictured Rocks
is kinda chilly this time of year, so no loss.

I'm one of those "non-essentials" because of my agency's determination that my cases don't involve the immediate protection of life and property. They take an exceptionally strict view of that, and I investigate mostly economic crimes.

One of my aging investigations involves roughly $4.5M in fraud against the USG. The statute of limitations is looming on older discrete violations. .Gov doesn't care. I'm not performing "excepted" work under their "immediate protection of life and property" standard, so... home I sit. I am not permitted to access my e-mail, go to my office, or make work-related calls, even using my own resources. I cannot volunteer my time, by the DOJ's long-established advice. We are actually advised that doing so could result in criminal penalties under the Anti-Deficiency Act. Yes, you read that correctly. I can be fired and prosecuted for doing my job without pay.

So the criminal prosecutors on the U.S. Attorney's Office ARE performing "excepted" work during the shutdown, but my cases aren't among them (in the fed world, cases don't move without agent participation.) When I eventually go back to work, it'll be in "Fire! Fire! Damage Control!" mode to move those cases so we don't lose the ability to charge based on the statute of limitations running. OK, that'll probably work, but it means disruption of their schedules because their hours (and Grand Jury hours, and the court's schedule) are all finite resources that'll need to be juggled around. So OTHER cases being run by other agents, guys and gals who've done nothing wrong and in many cases WERE working through the "shutdown," also get the Furlough Finger by extension.

I'm a fan of government efficiency... and yeah, let's cue the myriad stories about do-nothing overpaid public employees. I have a bunch of them, too. But don't think there aren't unintended consequences of even a partial shutdown. It sucks, even if the reason for the shutdown is a worthwhile goal (and I think it is.)

quote:

Originally posted by DennisM:
I'm one of those "non-essentials" because of my agency's determination that my cases don't involve the immediate protection of life and property...
(snip)

It sounds like you're doing necessary and important work, and it's unfortunate that you've been affected as well.

It would be great if the public had much more insight into and influence regarding how and why those essential/nonessential decisions are made. I don't mean I expect us to literally vote on it, but a more comprehensive White Box approach would be good.

Hopefully it doesn't do permanent damage to your efforts to date. One would think (hope) they'd factor that in, the potential for it causing wasted prior effort.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

4. Return power to state and local government. Over the past few generations, Washington has turned state governments into little more than administrators of federal programs.

C'mon man, I live in California. Any more power and the overlords that run this state would turn it into Zimbabwe quicker than you can sing a song.

I would rather have the federal government have all the power and introduce all legislations for the United States. As of now, going from one state to another is like going to another country. I just never seem to understand the "United" part.

Dear Fellow Americans,

Ya'all realize President Trump has closed down the IRS, right?

Now, do you want to call Nancy and Chuck and demand that the IRS get right back to work?

Thank you.

No matter what Trump does, The dems will still complain...if he allowed the caravan into the U.S. They will still complain and use it against him, This is what we Voted the Geotus for and he is keeping to his word.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
as much as there is some short term pain, I think the longer the shutdown continues the better it is for us

Are you going to pay my bills because it’ll be better for us? I’m working without knowing if I’m going to get paid. Should we as Air Traffic Controllers just shut down the national airspace? Screw it, y’all can drive.

quote:

Originally posted by Phantom229:

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
as much as there is some short term pain, I think the longer the shutdown continues the better it is for us

Are you going to pay my bills because it’ll be better for us? I’m working without knowing if I’m going to get paid. Should we as Air Traffic Controllers just shut down the national airspace? Screw it, y’all can drive.

Did you not receive backpay after any of the previous shutdowns ended?

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by Phantom229:

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
as much as there is some short term pain, I think the longer the shutdown continues the better it is for us

Are you going to pay my bills because it’ll be better for us? I’m working without knowing if I’m going to get paid. Should we as Air Traffic Controllers just shut down the national airspace? Screw it, y’all can drive.

Did you not receive backpay after any of the previous shutdowns ended?

Not to what I should have been paid for hours worked.

Do you work a job without the certainty of getting paid? It’s easy to say that I will probably get paid when you have 0% influence on whether or not it actually happens.

quote:

Originally posted by Phantom229:

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
as much as there is some short term pain, I think the longer the shutdown continues the better it is for us

Are you going to pay my bills because it’ll be better for us? I’m working without knowing if I’m going to get paid. Should we as Air Traffic Controllers just shut down the national airspace? Screw it, y’all can drive.

Don’t stick around on my account. I hadn’t flown since the TSA started grabbin decent folks by the junk.

You could always enter the private sector & look for a job.

quote:

Originally posted by Phantom229:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by Phantom229:

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
as much as there is some short term pain, I think the longer the shutdown continues the better it is for us

Are you going to pay my bills because it’ll be better for us? I’m working without knowing if I’m going to get paid. Should we as Air Traffic Controllers just shut down the national airspace? Screw it, y’all can drive.

Did you not receive backpay after any of the previous shutdowns ended?

Not to what I should have been paid for hours worked.

Do you work a job without the certainty of getting paid? It’s easy to say that I will probably get paid when you have 0% influence on whether or not it actually happens.

Didn't say or imply anything. Just wanted to know what the result was from previous shutdowns.

That's a big chip you're carrying around on your shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

That's a big chip you're carrying around on your shoulder.

It most certainly is because I have to consider the ramifications of the actions of others. It’s easy for people to say “well I don’t fly so whatever...” or “just find another job” when the shutdown has no effect on them.

Some Lib wrote in my local paper to start a Go Fund Me for the furloughed IRS People!
Fuck these people Extra Hard, please!

quote:

Originally posted by Phantom229:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

That's a big chip you're carrying around on your shoulder.

It most certainly is because I have to consider the ramifications of the actions of others. It’s easy for people to say “well I don’t fly so whatever...” or “just find another job” when the shutdown has no effect on them.

So your options are
1) continue to work at a position where you might not get paid regularly (due to politics outside of your control) & continue to bitch about it,

OR

2) go get another job that is not subject to a shutdown delaying your paycheck.

quote:

Originally posted by maximus_flavius:

quote:

Originally posted by Phantom229:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

That's a big chip you're carrying around on your shoulder.

It most certainly is because I have to consider the ramifications of the actions of others. It’s easy for people to say “well I don’t fly so whatever...” or “just find another job” when the shutdown has no effect on them.

So your options are
1) continue to work at a position where you might not get paid regularly (due to politics outside of your control) & continue to bitch about it,

OR

2) go get another job that is not subject to a shutdown delaying your paycheck.

Not bitching about, I’m defending my position. My job isn’t one you can just “go find another job”. What do you do?

quote:

Originally posted by Phantom229:

quote:

Originally posted by maximus_flavius:

quote:

Originally posted by Phantom229:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

That's a big chip you're carrying around on your shoulder.

It most certainly is because I have to consider the ramifications of the actions of others. It’s easy for people to say “well I don’t fly so whatever...” or “just find another job” when the shutdown has no effect on them.

So your options are
1) continue to work at a position where you might not get paid regularly (due to politics outside of your control) & continue to bitch about it,

OR

2) go get another job that is not subject to a shutdown delaying your paycheck.

Not bitching about, I’m defending my position. My job isn’t one you can just “go find another job”. What do you do?

The kind of job that doesn’t have gov employee unions, benefits or retirement. If I didn’t like it, I’d change, instead of complaining about it. You most certainly could go get another job in a different field that doesn’t quit paying you when there’s a shutdown.


Your post just comes off like “your doin everybody a favor”. I’m sorry that you don’t get paid during a shutdown, I don’t condone it. But it’s not my fault, & it’s not gonna change. Blame Congress.

quote:

Originally posted by maximus_flavius:


Your post just comes off like “your doin everybody a favor”. I’m sorry that you don’t get paid during a shutdown, I don’t condone it. But it’s not my fault, & it’s not gonna change. Blame Congress.

I work for the flying public, so maybe I’m not doing “everyone” a favor but I do work for them. My job isn’t one where I can just walk into another tower and say “hey, I want to work here”. I appreciate you not condoning the not getting paid. What got my goat was people saying “keep the shutdown going” without really understanding who it really affects. I blame every single member of Congress every time this happens. I want them to be considered essential furloughed employees and withhold their pay till they can figure their shit out.

quote:

. I blame every single member of Congress every time this happens. I want them to be considered essential furloughed employees and withhold their pay till they can figure their shit out.

Everyone of them and every person that works for them. They all should be paying for Obama care out of their own pockets as well.