In today's episode of Caneau is unhappy with the gun industry (see: "I'm Bored of the Gun Industry" for reference) -- gun stores. Of all the stores I walk into, gun stores are among my least favorite. Their atmosphere always make me feel mildly uncomfortable. But aside from that, it has to be one of the most backwards shopping experiences still around. While I have seen exceptions to everything I'm about to say, please allow me to elaborate:

1) Lack of online inventory -- this one drives me nuts. In today's internet-driven age, I know that Home Depot has 18 of a particular size of washer left. If I purchase the washer, I can refresh my app 5 minutes later and see that there are 17 left. Online inventory systems are amazing things and they can integrate with point of sale systems with only a bit of work. Why on earth does almost every gun store have a static (or worse, out of date) web page that says "We sell Glocks." Of course you do, you're a gun store. Let me think, you probably sell Ruger as well.

2) The most homogeneous group of salesmen...in the world. I'm not one of these "diversity for the sake of diversity" types -- it's silly. But I have never seen a lady selling a gun at a store (occasionally at gun shows, but never at a store). For that matter, I rarely see anyone other than middle aged dudes dressed in polos and some variant of 5.11 pants. Will it be light khaki or dark khaki today?

3) Utter lack of product training and information -- in most sales professions, there are product trainings that salespeople have to attend as well as manuals they have to memorize, specs to know, and terminology to understand. I get the impression none of this exists at gun stores. And if it does, it's poorly executed based on the nonsense I've heard said by salespeople.

4) Lack of outside-the-store engagement of customers -- I shop a lot at REI and they have tons of outdoor classes, trainings, workshops, seminars, etc. all either free or very reasonably priced. My bicycle store has something similar, heck, even my grocery store has demonstrations and classes. I hardly ever see a "Demo Night" advertised when there is a new product launched, a workshop with an instructor, or a regular range night where people can get coaching, try new items, etc.

5) No community outreach. When was the last time you saw a gun store sponsor a community event? Or host a cleanup operation at a local park? Or volunteer at Habitat for Humanity? Heck, even have a cookout to raise money for some charity of choice. You can't tell me that a dozen middle aged guys can't cook a burger or do a bit of drywall installation for a good cause.

6) I saved the best one for last -- the attitude. As my crunchy friends might say, "The negative waves man, too many negative waves." It's a rare occurrence when I walk into a store and someone says with a smile on their face, "Welcome, thanks for coming in! With what can I assist you today?" And if you offer me a cup of coffee, I'm going to be purchasing something.

I know not every store is like this, but there is a good chance they are guilty of at least one or two of these items. And with sales down about 20% across the board, it seems more would be done to stand out from the crowd of mediocrity.

Oh, and for the record, our favorite TGS seems to get the closest to doing things the right way.

Our society has evolved in such a direction that it only matters if you get it right in front of you on your 3X6 phone. This is systemic of an "I-Life" cultural paradigm shift. Personal communication and social interaction have never been developed or learned.

I find this odd, since the typical 5.11 tactical trouser and polo wearing LGS personel in there 40's are not the typical tweeter's, piner's, facebooker's, snapchater's, and instagramer's demographic. But then, there you have it.

I've been going to my current LGS for 25 years, through three owners. They are loyal to me, and I am loyal to them. Dealing with one of the guys behind the counter is like just a simple talk you would have in the park with someone. We all know each others names, we let each other use each other's equipment, just to try it out. I can store things there if I want. It's an extension of my home.

I wish my experience was more common.

H&K-Guy

Good points. Our LGS is more like a comfortable den where one can go in and relax and look around. They don't serve coffee though. And they sponsor the Quail Unlimited chapter here. I donated a new 6' x 12' trailer a couple of years ago for the door prize as the sweetest sound is a Bob White calling in the fields.

You know you could open a store yourself and show us all how to dos it.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
You know you could open a store yourself and show us all how to dos it.

In an industry that's down 20% this year? I may be nuts but I'm not that crazy

Ahh, one of my pet peeves, as someone that works in the wholesale world that deals with private store owners on a daily basis, gun shops are the worst...actually car dealerships are the worst but, thats a different topic.

The majority of the issues start with the gun industry itself. They don't care. Seriously, if they carried about where their product was sold, how it was sold and the sustainability of the business itself, they would get rid of distributors. Distributors do nothing but, shrink available margins for private independent dealers, and empower those shops who by all-rights should not be in the business because they're underfunded to begin with. Marketing support is usually a pile of glossy catalogs and possibly a gun rug. Tech training...not unless you're a Gold-Platinum-Chromoly dealer. Most tech reps that do get out there, chugged the company Kool-Aid, and are nearly useless when it comes to helping the business of a private shop.

The guns made in the USA already have slim margins, imported guns are slimmer. Introducing distributors into the equation shrinks the margin that shops can make, thus slimming down the available dollars they could use by paying for additional staff. Most shop owners don't realize how shitty the margins are until they're a year into the business, by that time they've got a loan out, a chunk of overhead and a lease to pay. Using distributors, gun brands are not in control of who's selling their product. You can be the nicest, most invested shop in the town, good lighting, well merchandised cases, employees who look like they work there...and the same merchandise can be sold at the surplus store bubba hangout three blocks away.

Gun shops are notorious for simply being hang-outs. Many owners and employees are there because they want to walk around for 8-hours with some steel on their hip, while pontificating their expertise on xxx firearm. Hosting classes, doing some outreach, interacting with the community would mean actually working. Lot of these guys have never been a professional at any capacity, let alone any experience in retail. Gun shops need to be equally good at salesmanship, administrative compliance and marketing/public relations....most are good at just one. Look at any industry that relies on specialty brick n'mortar to sell their premium goods: bike shops, running shops, outdoor shops, fishing shops, shoe stores, the good ones don't just sell products but, take their roles seriously both as a business and, as community members; they have a passion and they want to share it with everyone. Gun shops need to take notice and up their game.

Agree on most points for most of the shops in the Twin Cities Area and across the river in western WI. One exception though is Southwest Arms owned and run by Thunderjohn on the forum here. Not only is he helpful, knowledgeable and very approachable, in my experience so are his employees.

Agree about many of the shops being hangout spots for a tight little good ole boy network. Some of the smaller shops I will occasionally visit the guys are shooting the shit and ignoring customers when they walk in and are browsing.

Other than ogling guns I really dislike going into most gun stores and the ogling gets old pretty fast.

I feel like we have a few good stores here.The one I go to the most has great customer service. I have called them on the phone and they will hold a gun for me if they have it. They have ordered guns for me without any deposit over the phone as well.

We also have a store here called Adventure Outdoors which is massive. They call themselves the largest gun store in the world and if they are wrong they can't be wrong by much. They claim to have over 10,000 guns and I believe them. So I am a bit spoiled because if I ever want a gun, any gun really, I can just go there and pick it up that day.

I know that I am blessed to live in an area with multiple good gun shops and feel like maybe it is proof that competition is good for the consumer. If you guys got one really nice shop with knowledgeable employees, good customer service and decent inventory then everyone else would have to either step up their game or die.

If you ever get the chance to stop by the gun stores in Lynnwood Washington, adventure sports is a hole in the wall looking gun store until you walk inside. I was truly amazed at the great selection, friendly staff, and wall to wall guns and knifes, reloading equipment u name it and very fair prices.

I only wish we had a store that nice here in Oregon.

I like these LGS in the greater Seattle area.

Adventure Sports
Outdoor Emporium
Anacortes Telescope and Guns
West Coast Armory
Precise Shooter

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:
Why Are Gun Stores So Awful?

The ones I go to are not. May be your outlook on life.

quote:

Anacortes Telescope and Guns

Wait, they sell guns? Didn't know that. But presumably not by mail order.

I went to a certain gun store in the Twin Cities to buy my first pistol, my P226. I was talking to one of the guys about if they carry Para-Ordnance.

He gave me some spiel about Para-Ordnances being unreliable because they would go full-auto by accident. I tucked that little anecdote away until 20 Years later, when I'm in the same store, with the same guy behind the counter. As I am looking at shotguns, another customer asks about Para-Ordnance pistols. Guy behind the counter give the same spiel about Para-Ordnance.

There are too many gun guys who think, "I like guns, I should sell 'em, too" And they go into business. But while they might have a passion for firearms, they don't necessarily have a passion for dealing with people.

And by people, I do not mean not fellow gun enthusiasts with a certain amount of knowledge, but also complete novices, squirrelly types who brag about their supposed military service, dudes asking if they can buy a fully-auto AK, etc.

If you have ever worked customer service, think of all the stupid questions you've heard....and remember how often that same question is repeated by innumerable people.

You had better enjoy answering the same dumb questions.

In my area there are some good gun stores, some so-so, and some bad. I think competition makes a huge difference in the quality of a gun shop.

Now for my pet peeves. This BS about "giving back to the community" or "community outreach". I don't care about that. It does nothing but waste time and money, unless you consider it some odd form of advertising. If a store wants to have a ladies night or a complimentary course, fine. If they want to sponsor a kids team or shooting activity, great. Next on my list would be a lack of variety. A wall of ARs looks cool, but just suppose I want something else, anything else. Having every Glock model is great for Glock fans, but doesn't do much for those of us who don't care for them. Likewise stocking one manufacturer of 1911s, and only a high end brand no one can afford.

Sugpgestions:

Please stop pricing used guns like they are new. If you have a range, don't stock ammo that you won't let people shoot at your range, or at least let them exchange it.

Have a place to sit. Some of us have bad joints, or spouses that tolerate our hobby. If a dress store has chairs to sit in while your wife tries on outfits, then a gun store can have a few comfortable chairs for spouses or those who can't stand around for long periods.

Hire more gun nuts, a variety of them, and train them in sales. Much better than the other way around.

Just being friendly, approachable and enthusiastic makes a world of difference.

I'm pretty happy with the few local stores I frequent in this area. I've been to my share of bad ones over the years too. We have one LGS whose online website is always up to date. If you're buying the last of a particular model, he'll pull it from the website while you're doing paperwork. If someone trades in a gun, he'll add it immediately to the "used" section of his website then post on Facebook that it's available. The LGS I frequent the most is managed by a young woman who knows as much about guns as anyone I know. It's a family business and she grew up with it. A couple of stores have done community outreach (although I personally don't consider community outreach to be a requirement for a good LGS). The most recent example being going to the home of a combat veteran who had been robbed and injured, organizing several work parties via Facebook to fix up his home and do yard work and presenting him with a free handgun for protection. I go to 4 shops within a 50 mile radius that really know their products. In my opinion, each of these shops specializes in certain things. One shop is more tactical, another more hunting, another with higher end handguns, etc. There are a couple of other shops I've been to around here that clearly do not know their stuff and have tried to feed me a load of crap to make a sale. Needless to say, I won't go back to those. The big box stores are where I have issues. During one visit (while my wife was shopping for gym clothes or I wouldn't have been there), I wanted to see a Walther PPQ 9mm that was in the case plain as day right in front of my extended index finger. The only person working the gun counter just kept pointing at every pistol in the general vicinity saying "You mean the forty? You mean the forty?" I damn near lost my mind. I've had similar experiences at Gander Mountain when it was in business. I never have those issues at our local gun shops.

quote:

Why Are Gun Stores So Awful?

Some certainly are, but it's painting with an awfully broad brush to say they all are.

So... you want them to lie to you like Home Depot about what's in stock and you want them to do a bunch of things that almost no other business else does either. Got it.

My criteria for gun stores is generally.
1. Have guns. Not a new sample of the cheapest junk there is. Not one's that have been in the store for decades because the price is laughable.

2. Don't try to make the rent payment on every sale. See #1

3. Don'r lie to me. The best thing you can say to me is "I don't know" rather than make things up, repeat rumors or flat out lie.

Those three things are the reason I almost never go to gun stores.

There is one store and indoor Range here in Nashville that should be the example of how it's done. Its "Royal Range"! They were a multiplex theater that was converted to a GREAT outfit! Great staff, not a bunch of friggin Doomsday Warriors with an opinion on Mall survival, but well trained and educated people from LEOs to Military training with one purpose. Educate, and not force sell.
I stopped into another store that was going to go out of business the other day, and they tried to hard sell me on a $7000.00 left handed bolt gun , I told the turd five times that I was right handed........................

Bottom line if you are in the area, give Royal Range a SHOT!

A local entrepreneur set up a gun store in Falls Church ("The Gun Dude") that addressed each of your points, combined with coffee. Diverse staff, online inventory, training and legal courses, outreach, etc. In terms of attitude, education focus with emphasis on first-time gun buyers. Problem is, it is still a low margin business, and they are closing later this month.

Virginia Arms in Manassas is an option.

Lets talk about your point #4.
I have wondered why, at least stores in my area, don't have a
a class for new firearm owners. I am talking about basic field strip, cleaning,
and handling.