quote:

Originally posted by steve495:
#1 - Online inventory synched with the brick & mortar store's inventory is much more complex than you think. A lot more complex, and the local gun shops don't have the IT budget of the Home Depot Corporation.

Having an online eCommerce solution tied to an easy-to-use retail point of sale system is just the beginning. What if you have multiple stores? How often do you synch? What if you have parts kits made of different parts that are also sold separately?

I've had conversations with Michelle from Top Gun Supply, and if you knew the costs and tribulations they have gone through to build/update/manage their online eCommerce and POS systems, you would not believe it.

I'm an IT manager. I know exactly how much it costs and how to do it. But for the lay person, yeah, it might be challenging. But then again, why open a store without having this as part of the business plan?

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:

quote:

Originally posted by Crockett040:

quote:

Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
1) Websites are expensive to develop, require constant fiddling and
updating, and are beyond the personal capabilities of many owners. Have
you ever noticed that the majority of "store's" websites you see look
the same? That's because it is a GearFire website with direct
distributor feed. The store doesn't actually have that shit in stock
and thus isn't paying to house it.

2) The staff reflect the demographic of gun enthusiasts.

3) Agree 100%.

4) Small margins, liability, etc.

5) The most successful stores I sell to are in neighborhoods where many in
the community hate them.

6) Whether it's guns, or tiles at Home Depot, good salesman are hard to
find.

In my 20 years in the firearms industry, working from Arizona to the East Coast, on more than one occasion I have had customers smell guns and tell me that it doesn't smell right. Shake guns and tell me they don't sound right. Tell me they've killed deer at 300 yards with single heart shots from .22 magnum revolvers. And my personal favorite, ask me to look at a dozen different pistols from the same maker to find a serial number that "doesn't have bad vibes associated".

The attitude comes from dealing with the same dumbassery every single day, Ad nauseam. Loaded guns pulled out of holsters, guns pointed at your guts, lies told to your face, retarded 'facts" regurgitated because "that's what (fill in the blank) told me, and he's a gun guy."

The problem with the gun industry, and there are many, is that it's a race to the bottom price-wise. Many MFDs do not enforce MAP, and store owners have to compete with whores, basement bandits, and one-lung dealers who have an FFL, a laptop, and do this shit for beer money.

As a gunstore/range owner, You hit the nail on the head and then some.

+1

and should have read this before my long post,

add to this,, gun show patrons,

lots of bitching about the dealers,, I offer anyone on this board to sit behind my tables at Richmond, Chantilly, Hampton or Fishersville for a few hours and help the patrons,,,

you will never complain about a dealer again

Been there, done that. Many times. Never had a problem with a patron. But there is an art to handling them.

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:
You need to take a vacation trip out to Utah!

I grew up in Vegas. What's so special about Utah besides good ski areas and horrendous liquor laws?

I am so glad that you opened my eyes to the pitiful state of gun stores.

I'll go by my local store in the morning and tell Tom he is doing it all wrong. Of course, I'll probably have to set on the high-back bench because the rocker will probably be occupied by Allen. But I can still scratch Tom's old lab behind her ears when she lays her head in my lap.

And Tom, or Ronnie, will probably bug the living shit out of me by asking help in helping another customer to break down his Dad's .45. Or, they might ask me to break down and give an honest evaluation of an M1 Grand that a customer brought in and wanted help. The gun was a Korean War era IHC that was re-barrelled and sent to Greece for their Navy (usually they were sent to Nam for the ARVAN's), brought back and sold through the DCM. Seems like Tom doesn't know how to bullshit customers with stories of guns going full auto.

Another thing that Tom is doing wrong is that he has a decent range of Browning and a few other rifles and shotguns, but he doesn't have a counter full of handguns like Academy. I guess his customer's are OK with him ordering guns for them at a fair price because he doesn't carry a large inventory and overhead. He does have a pretty good range of hunting bows that he he can work wonders with.

His shop is a little old fashioned - carries items from cheap to expensive (Weaver to Swarovski) that his customers want to buy.

Yep, Tom has been doing it wrong for years, and I will just have to tell him that the first thing in the morning.

.

quote:

Originally posted by redleg2/9:
I am so glad that you opened my eyes to the pitiful state of gun stores.

I'll go by my local store in the morning and tell Tom he is doing it all wrong. Of course, I'll probably have to set on the high-back bench because the rocker will probably be occupied by Allen. But I can still scratch Tom's old lab behind her ears when she lays her head in my lap.

And Tom, or Ronnie, will probably bug the living shit out of me by asking help in helping another customer to break down his Dad's .45. Or, they might ask me to break down and give an honest evaluation of an M1 Grand that a customer brought in and wanted help. The gun was a Korean War era IHC that was re-barrelled and sent to Greece for their Navy (usually they were sent to Nam for the ARVAN's), brought back and sold through the DCM. Seems like Tom doesn't know how to bullshit customers with stories of guns going full auto.

Another thing that Tom is doing wrong is that he has a decent range of Browning and a few other rifles and shotguns, but he doesn't have a counter full of handguns like Academy. I guess his customer's are OK with him ordering guns for them at a fair price because he doesn't carry a large inventory and overhead. He does have a pretty good range of hunting bows that he he can work wonders with.

His shop is a little old fashioned - carries items from cheap to expensive (Weaver to Swarovski) that his customers want to buy.

Yep, Tom has been doing it wrong for years, and I will just have to tell him that the first thing in the morning.

.

It's late and I misread what you wrote as "scratch Tom behind the ears". And here I was thinking you had a really special relationship with your neighborhood FFL.

The Gun Dude in Falls Church is closing, not moving as far as I know. The coffee is excellent.

For Virginia Arms, I've mainly worked with Bernie, the owner. While it is less expensive to order online and pay a transfer fee, I make sure some of my purchases are from the local dealers at closer to retail pricing. Given my regretable short attention span, I also make sure they make money on some consignment sales.

In an expensive suburban area, unless you have a range or other revenue sources, the challenge is revenue.

I would think that doing transfers at $25-50 a pop is the only thing keeping a couple of the local ones open. The last one I went to had almost zero handguns in stock, just a couple of used junker .22's, and an old S&W 10 with zero bluing on it, priced at $350. It's been there for as long as I have been going there, about 12 years. He had a decent number of used rifles, but all he had new was a Henry .22 and an overpriced S&W AR. I asked the owner about ordering a gun for me, and the price he wanted for it was higher than if I bought it online, paid $35 for shipping (on Gunbroker), and then to transfer it from him to me. I passed. And his ammo prices are just crazy. He seems to think .22lr is rare, he gets 2X what Walmart 15 minutes away gets for the same thing. He's up there in age, and I would imagine that the store will go away when he does. I will only miss the cast of characters that spend all day, every day, there a little.

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:

quote:

Originally posted by steve495:
#1 - Online inventory synched with the brick & mortar store's inventory is much more complex than you think. A lot more complex, and the local gun shops don't have the IT budget of the Home Depot Corporation.

Having an online eCommerce solution tied to an easy-to-use retail point of sale system is just the beginning. What if you have multiple stores? How often do you synch? What if you have parts kits made of different parts that are also sold separately?

I've had conversations with Michelle from Top Gun Supply, and if you knew the costs and tribulations they have gone through to build/update/manage their online eCommerce and POS systems, you would not believe it.

I'm an IT manager. I know exactly how much it costs and how to do it. But for the lay person, yeah, it might be challenging. But then again, why open a store without having this as part of the business plan?

Cost vs benefit. Simple as that. We're not just talking opening a small business here, we're talking about opening a micro business, most likely with fewer than five full time employees. One of my clients spent close to $10,000 on a new system so they could have an updated POS with the capabilities to sell online. We never even got to the online selling part. We were assured by the third party we were working with that their software could do what the old POS system did. Not even close. There were specific business requirements that could not be matched and the old system (think mid-90s technology) was custom built for that industry. We spent about two weeks redoing all the data entry to go back to the old system.

Some small brick and mortar stores think if they just could get their website up with their live online inventory showing the orders will flood in. Not at all the case.

"Give back to the community"?? "Outreach"?? We are a gunshop, not social services. And those of us who work in one usually have another job to go to after this one. And with what the pay is and the profit margin on guns, go buy your own coffee - just like we do.

Maybe if we didnt have to deal with so many "gun experts" every day boring us with BS while they are sweeping us with their guns ( "oh its empty!" ) or ranting about how we are crazy for offering them $50 for their Jennings .25 pistol with the flaking chrome finish (its NOT nickel sparky!) We might have a better attitude. Jus sayin. Regards 18DAI

One thing, after hours events. A lot of the smaller outstate shops in Michigan do not have a range as part of their business. With the requirements for health and safety together with haz-mat lead removal unless there is a large demand for indoor shooting it's just not going to happen. When you can step outside your back door and pop a few rounds into the dirt berm at the back of your house why would you drive to the local range and drop maybe 20-25 bucks for a timed hour to shoot?

Special Events and Community Outreach. Usually this translates to "employees give up your free time and work for free" at least on the Community Outreach side. Business owners look it as giving back to the community you work in. Business I used to work for was great for this line. Sorry, but in that case I was onsite for 50+ hours five to six days a week, I lived about twenty miles from the center of the town they were located in. So they wanted me to drive 40 miles, probably a little over an hour round trip to work 4 to 6 hours at one of the events on my day off for free? Different thing when the business owner was alongside you at one of these things but when they are sitting at home or at the country club sipping on a drink while you are handing out trinkets and trash to people complaining about why you are out of free reusable shopping bags it gets old quick. And usually not even cold drinks for us in a cooler, we had to buy our own.

Also, a lot of the people in gun shops, dive shops, hobby type businesses, this is a second job, at least in this state. So add the hours for their first job with what they work at the second job, well no wonder nobody wants to volunteer at a Habitat For Humanity or Save The Whales etc. event. They may be at the second job to fund their hobby while paying the bills from the first one, or they may need the second one to pay bills, does not matter. Only so many hours in a day to relax, spend time with family or friends, mow the lawn, etc. Not like anyone is going to step up and do their chores because they are "volunteering".

Same thing about attitudes can be said for customers. When they come in with the know it all attitude, make a purchase then find out it does not do what they expect they come back in and it becomes the person behind the counter's fault. I've seen enough of that over the years of working in car dealership and motorcycle parts departments. That is why in car dealerships I put notes on the invoice with the VIN number as reference to what I was given or year make and model if no VIN was given or my favorite "Customer supplied Part Number". The last one, it was all on them if it was wrong. I had one manager tell me not to put the customer supplied P/N note on the invoice as it was not his belief that the customer could be wrong as we were the professionals. I ignored that and still put it on, some would insist that their number was right.

quote:

Originally posted by 18DAI:
"Give back to the community"?? "Outreach"?? We are a gunshop, not social services. And those of us who work in one usually have another job to go to after this one. And with what the pay is and the profit margin on guns, go buy your own coffee - just like we do.

Maybe if we didnt have to deal with so many "gun experts" every day boring us with BS while they are sweeping us with their guns ( "oh its empty!" ) or ranting about how we are crazy for offering them $50 for their Jennings .25 pistol with the flaking chrome finish (its NOT nickel sparky!) We might have a better attitude. Jus sayin. Regards 18DAI

you pay 50 for a Jennings?

bought my last one at 25,, and it was in good shape,,

I'll go 50 on a like new hi point

We offered $50 on the Jennings only because they were trying to trade FOR a High Point .380. A step up, maybe. And we were in the High Point just right too.

quote:

Originally posted by 18DAI:
We offered $50 on the Jennings only because they were trying to trade FOR a High Point .380. A step up, maybe. And we were in the High Point just right too.

quote:

It's late and I misread what you wrote as "scratch Tom behind the ears". And here I was thinking you had a really special relationship with your neighborhood FFL.

Tom is a friend, but when the old Lab reaches the Rainbow Bridge, I'll just scratch my family jewels - like the rest of the old farts.

.

quote:

Originally posted by redleg2/9:
I am so glad that you opened my eyes to the pitiful state of gun stores.

I'll go by my local store in the morning and tell Tom he is doing it all wrong. Of course, I'll probably have to set on the high-back bench because the rocker will probably be occupied by Allen. But I can still scratch Tom's old lab behind her ears when she lays her head in my lap.

And Tom, or Ronnie, will probably bug the living shit out of me by asking help in helping another customer to break down his Dad's .45. Or, they might ask me to break down and give an honest evaluation of an M1 Grand that a customer brought in and wanted help. The gun was a Korean War era IHC that was re-barrelled and sent to Greece for their Navy (usually they were sent to Nam for the ARVAN's), brought back and sold through the DCM. Seems like Tom doesn't know how to bullshit customers with stories of guns going full auto.

Another thing that Tom is doing wrong is that he has a decent range of Browning and a few other rifles and shotguns, but he doesn't have a counter full of handguns like Academy. I guess his customer's are OK with him ordering guns for them at a fair price because he doesn't carry a large inventory and overhead. He does have a pretty good range of hunting bows that he he can work wonders with.

His shop is a little old fashioned - carries items from cheap to expensive (Weaver to Swarovski) that his customers want to buy.

Yep, Tom has been doing it wrong for years, and I will just have to tell him that the first thing in the morning.

.

Would you mind sharing the name of this place -- sounds like a good detour next time I'm over that way without all the kids.

Send me an email and I'll send you the info.

.

one of my local shops is owned and operated by a woman and it's a longstanding business that seems to do well. She has the best powder selection in the whole area. My favorite LGS is owned and operated solely by a married couple and they are both super nice and have always treated me right.

quote:

Originally posted by steve495:

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:

quote:

Originally posted by steve495:
#1 - Online inventory synched with the brick & mortar store's inventory is much more complex than you think. A lot more complex, and the local gun shops don't have the IT budget of the Home Depot Corporation.

Having an online eCommerce solution tied to an easy-to-use retail point of sale system is just the beginning. What if you have multiple stores? How often do you synch? What if you have parts kits made of different parts that are also sold separately?

I've had conversations with Michelle from Top Gun Supply, and if you knew the costs and tribulations they have gone through to build/update/manage their online eCommerce and POS systems, you would not believe it.

I'm an IT manager. I know exactly how much it costs and how to do it. But for the lay person, yeah, it might be challenging. But then again, why open a store without having this as part of the business plan?

Cost vs benefit. Simple as that. We're not just talking opening a small business here, we're talking about opening a micro business, most likely with fewer than five full time employees. One of my clients spent close to $10,000 on a new system so they could have an updated POS with the capabilities to sell online. We never even got to the online selling part. We were assured by the third party we were working with that their software could do what the old POS system did. Not even close. There were specific business requirements that could not be matched and the old system (think mid-90s technology) was custom built for that industry. We spent about two weeks redoing all the data entry to go back to the old system.

Some small brick and mortar stores think if they just could get their website up with their live online inventory showing the orders will flood in. Not at all the case.

True dat Steve!

Stopped in at Gun Dude today. They were definitely closing. Got a good cup of Joe, looked around at their stuff (some store related things for sale). Nothing that interested me too much. Did have this 1911 looking gun for $300, beat to shit, thought about it for a split second. Enjoyed my coffee and hit the road.

Nice guys, hate to see any gun shop close.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Stopped in at Gun Dude today. They were definitely closing. Got a good cup of Joe, looked around at their stuff (some store related things for sale). Nothing that interested me too much. Did have this 1911 looking gun for $300, beat to shit, thought about it for a split second. Enjoyed my coffee and hit the road.

Nice guys, hate to see any gun shop close.

Too bad. I was going to swing by them last week because they're right above Bedo's leather and I have two holsters that need some alterations beyond my limited leatherworking capability. Maybe this Saturday. Rent prices in Falls Church must be pretty nuts and probably too much to support such a low margin business.