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Member |
Not sure, but it was the same neighborhood, as I saw one of the finders post on Nextdoor that she'd found one in her yard. | |||
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Lost |
According to the latest NTSB briefing, the door plug did shift upward somehow to exit the airframe, damaging the upper roller guides in the process (it was not breaking of the roller guides that caused the ejection). They also seemed to downplay the cabin pressure alerts that occurred on previous flights, but it's all really still up in the air (NPI). | |||
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A Grateful American |
So, now the "science" of what can cause the uplift to the door, (cabin pressure/outside pressure delta at various scheduling of the cabin pressure regulation primary/secondary, mechanical "failsafe") as well as what caused the upper trunnion guides to fail? Was it the failure of the "locking" (securing hardware of bolt/washers/castellated nut/cotter pin) or did the mounts where the trunnions were mated with? Similar mechanical "locking" are used for landing gear upclocks, landing gear doors, cargo and other "doors", where a roller/trunnion engage in a receiving structure "think hand in glove", except in this instance the "hand in glove" has a "pin" driven thought the hand in glove, once it is in place. And is a "hard" securing method, only to be disassembled at a specific calendar time, operational hourly time, or cycle time (take off and landing being one cycle for example). The door plug assembly should not have been able to move up enough under any circumstance to permit the door stops to become out of alignment to the point that they no longer could contain the door plug. However, the statement by the NTSB Chair regarding the "feature" of the door plug to depart under "decompression scenarios" is intriguing. That is something I did not perceive to be as a possible design function. Only that if a tremendous overpressure event occurred in side the cabin (such as an explosive detonated inside the cabin) that such a "feature" would make sense to rapidly dissipate any overpressure to maintain cabin/hull/structural integrity, at the sacrifice of the two door plugs (or, even actual escape doors). "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב! | |||
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Seeker of Clarity |
It's painful to listen to the stupid questions from the press. Shouldn't you be at least as interested as I am, if you are assigned to this story, such that YOU would watch a few YouTubes on the flight out to interview the NTSB? I'll answer. YES, yes you should. There would be no easy way to avoid a two video Juan Brown briefing if you cared to do a YT search. It is also painful to listen to this woman's inability to clearly and concisely articulate this very simple mechanical concept without the aid of the gentleman to her left (our right). And without the high five of the gentleman to her right (our left). Good God woman!, you have two hands!!! You don't need to ask that guy for a high five to pull this off. Cue the MEMEs. <facepalm> | |||
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Frangas non Flectes |
Talked with someone I know at Boeing who has a lot of experience with the problems at hand. The punchline is, Boeing doesn't do the door plugs, Spirit Aerosystems does, and they have their own inspectors. You know who else is responsible for inspecting the airframe before Boeing takes delivery? That's right, the FAA. ______________________________________________ Carthago delenda est | |||
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No More Mr. Nice Guy |
In hindsight the repeated pressurization warnings are a clue. That is if what is being reported is true and the ETOPS restriction was in fact due to repeated pressurization issues. However, pressurization problems are not uncommon, and in my experience were caused by the pressurization system itself or a damaged door seal. One would not suspect at first that a bolted on part isn't really bolted on. Mechanics can't fix something that does not present as broken, and on the ground the plug door would, by gravity, be sitting properly. If it turns out the bolt hardware was missing or broken, it seems to me the pilots and mechanics would never be able to detect it in normal line operations. | |||
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Member |
Isn't it?? But we all know TRUE "journalism" in this country has been dead for decades. You and I would probably be considered "Mensa" in the journalism world, but then I'm sure we'd both be cancelled quickly, as you and I would SEEK THE TRUTH. Not all that common in today's world. But I digress...... "If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24 | |||
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To all of you who are serving or have served our country, Thank You |
blancolirio update.. | |||
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Lost |
^I was just about to post Juan's 3rd installment. Bolts still missing, but EM micro-analysis of the door should reveal witness marks indicating breakage failure, or even if the bolts had ever been installed in the first place. He also delves further into the possible significance of the earlier pressurization warnings than the NTSB is able at this time. | |||
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blame canada |
The roller guide bracket with loose bolts has been showing up in several A&P forums over the past couple of days. Blocolirio showed the picture in his latest video. I saw that 2 days ago. 3 of the 4 visible bolts were clearly loose. As in not even touching the lock washer level loose. That failure makes sense to me. I suspect whomever was responsible for checking or final torquing those at the factory didn't do it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ www.rikrlandvs.com | |||
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Be not wise in thine own eyes |
Think this will be an issue of bolts simply not installed. Loose bolts, concerning but not likely the cause of failure. Was it just luck that the two seats next to the door plug were unoccupied, or was it complaints of a whistling sound? FYI on a KC-135 wet paper towels will fix the whistling of a poorly fitting over-wing hatch (door). “We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,” Pres. Select, Joe Biden “Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021 | |||
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Quit staring at my wife's Butt |
When one door closes another door opens - Boeing | |||
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Seeker of Clarity |
Ok, my first guess on page one was garbage bolts/supply chain corruption. I'd given them the benefit of the doubt. That was unwise of me. That door wasn't bolted in and every one of those on-site investigators know it already. They'll prove it under the scopes. They're all worked up about the sleeve attachment bolts, but the sleeve was on, so don't get that. I've re-insourced critical functions at my organization in the past. In one particular case I'd discovered significant deficiencies in maintenance and an immediate $700k savings. I realize that one one data point in a million, but it set my opinion to how tremendously hard it is to manage QC on highly technical functions without deep immersion and management and frankly, key management having emotional ownership on said function. It could seem to me that the fuselage is a pretty central component to your identity as an aircraft maker. They'll get past this. But it creeps me out. A good opportunity in the near term for a robotic AI driven inspection as a QC. | |||
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Peace through superior firepower |
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Lost |
Wow. The airline industry has finally gone to the...well, you know. | |||
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Unflappable Enginerd |
More at link: Boeing Whistleblower: Production Line Has “Enormous Volume Of Defects” Bolts On MAX 9 Weren’t Installed
__________________________________ NRA Benefactor I lost all my weapons in a boating, umm, accident. http://www.aufamily.com/forums/ | |||
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Lost |
^I actually entertained this general idea. First theory was the bolts were never installed in the first place. But I also wondered that they had been installed, but later removed for whatever reason and never re-installed. The door is currently being examined, and microscopic analysis would be able to determine if bolts had never been installed at all. But it would not reveal if they had been removed but never returned. I also wondered if a shift change had contributed to a failing in process continuity, which the above disclosure implicates. (This has happened before, with catastrophic consequences.) | |||
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Lost |
Here's Juan's briefing in case the information article posted by stoic-one was tl;dr for you. Also some nice animation videos at the end. | |||
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Member |
Are these the same MAX airplanes that had the autopilot malfunctions a while back? I dont fly much but always complained about getting an old plane. Now, I hope to get the old planes. | |||
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Lost |
Yes, same model that suffered 2 fatal crashes. The problem was with the MCAS system (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System), an automated software to prevent stalls. It turned out that faulty Angle-of-Attack signals would trip the system to drive the nose down, with no way for the pilots to override as they plummeted into the ground. | |||
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