Wow you pay some high insurance! I though MA was bad, but not so much. We pay under $1400 a year for a 2015 Tacoma Limited and 2015 Highlander XLE. My 20 yr old son just got his policy on his 2007 Camry LE with full coverage for $1330 for full coverage over and above the required minimums.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
I've changed my own oil for 17 years. I do it myself for a variety of reasons, this is more justification to me.

We're using State Farm now. A 2014 Kia Sportage is $114 a month and a 2003 Honda Civic is $104 a month. Really? The Civic has 171,000 miles on it , it's fully paid off and I only have liability on it.

Looks like we'll be switching soon.

Something is not right there I have State Farm and my 2002 Explorer was $82 a month full coverage and got rid of it for a 2014 Sienna full coverage is $102.

This practice should be illegal, and so should the practice of using your credit rating to determine your insurance rates.

Then they'll just raise everyone's rates, because they won't be able to accurately rate the risks their covering.

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Originally posted by YooperSigs:
This practice should be illegal, and so should the practice of using your credit rating to determine your insurance rates.

Shit, I work from home. I'm gonna call USAA and try to get a rebate!

I change my own oil, so I doubt they can confirm my mileage. Nope, we have emissions test here, but not an inspection. I am sure the state sells my info.

Surprise, almost everyone sells your data.

No sense in being upset. Soon you will have to get a GPS to pay taxes by the mile, so the government will know everywhere you go. It starts in Dec with all semis, and will come to you all eventually. Uber and Lyft will probably sell your data too. They can make it a part of the Patriot Act so they won’t need to tell you.

Yea, I’m feeling a little cynical today.

The idea of using ANY data possible such as credit score or mileage to raise rates pisses me off.

Bad credit people are supposedly “more likely to commit fraud” is the justification, well I work for the Sheriff’s Dept, is there a discount for occupations that are “less likely” to commit fraud? No.

I have a long commute and drive a lot of miles, more miles I should pay more evidently. But wait, if I drive 50% more miles than the average Joe, and STILL have no accidents or tickets, aren’t I a statically even BETTER driver than someone with the same record and fewer miles? Seems like I should get an even bigger “safe driver” discount.

Fuckers....

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Originally posted by BBMW:
Then they'll just raise everyone's rates, because they won't be able to accurately rate the risks their covering.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
This practice should be illegal, and so should the practice of using your credit rating to determine your insurance rates.

Credit rating is not germane to how one safely operates a vehicle.

Insurance companies are not "the government". Yes, it is possible mileage could temporarily go up. Now back to reality-a VERY large number of drivers and vehicles are uninsured. Many states require uninsured motorist protection. Many "honest" drivers lie like hell to get lower rates, feeling justified by vilifying insurance companies. If you want to be mad, be mad at the lying cheating stealing assholes and illegals not carrying insurance and cheating. It's a competitive market. The companies will do what they can to keep their prices low. And of your biggest bitch is this issue, you haven't been paying attention. Big brother is watching truly important stuff.

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Originally posted by Baran:
Wow you pay some high insurance! I though MA was bad, but not so much. We pay under $1400 a year for a 2015 Tacoma Limited and 2015 Highlander XLE. My 20 yr old son just got his policy on his 2007 Camry LE with full coverage for $1330 for full coverage over and above the required minimums.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
I've changed my own oil for 17 years. I do it myself for a variety of reasons, this is more justification to me.

We're using State Farm now. A 2014 Kia Sportage is $114 a month and a 2003 Honda Civic is $104 a month. Really? The Civic has 171,000 miles on it , it's fully paid off and I only have liability on it.

Looks like we'll be switching soon.

Something is not right there I have State Farm and my 2002 Explorer was $82 a month full coverage and got rid of it for a 2014 Sienna full coverage is $102.

You are likely a few age brackets of discounts above me.

Rates also vary drastically by State and even address. You live where more cars get stolen - your rates are higher. You drive a car that is high on the "stolen car" list - you pay more. You drive a car that cost more to fix - you pay more.

Another advantage of doing it yourself.

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Originally posted by 911Boss:
The idea of using ANY data possible such as credit score or mileage to raise rates pisses me off.

I see. So you'd prefer to pay higher rates to make up for the fact they are deprived the means to calculate risk?

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Originally posted by 911Boss:
Bad credit people are supposedly “more likely to commit fraud” is the justification,

And they're statistically more likely to be involved in accidents.

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Originally posted by 911Boss:
well I work for the Sheriff’s Dept, is there a discount for occupations that are “less likely” to commit fraud? No.

You just complained that higher-risk people pay higher rates than lower-risk people, then complained you aren't getting a discount for being in the latter group.

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
I have a long commute and drive a lot of miles, more miles I should pay more evidently. But wait, if I drive 50% more miles than the average Joe, and STILL have no accidents or tickets, aren’t I a statically even BETTER driver than someone with the same record and fewer miles?

Your driving record says nothing about other drivers or just random chance. Given two people with identical driving histories: The one who drives more miles is statistically more likely to become involved in an accident.

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
Fuckers....

For doing sane, logical things?

Back to the original subject: Oil-change places and dealership service departments selling information to insurance companies: Anybody who sells your personal information to a third party should be required by law to inform you, in PROMINENT writing, that they do so.

As for the idiot complaining Valvoline was sharing service information on his vehicle with CarFax:

Yea, but on the other side of the coin for drivers like me who drive less than 1,000 miles a year..Will they offer me any discount? Bastids!!

Geico gives me a discount for low mileage. I drove about 5k a year.

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mileage to raise rates pisses me off.

That makes absolute sense. Less driving means less exposure to risk. The same for the area of operation, even by several miles. Back in NJ, urban areas near Newark were a higher risk for theft then twenty miles away in the country. The type of local, densely populated urban vs. smaller town suburban adjusted those rates significantly.

A lot of info is in the public domain. we had lawyers sending in some lowly staffer every Monday to get copies of mva reports. same to the court clerk's offices to get copies of arrests so they could pitch to defend or represent in a civil suit. All public documents in the state.

Correlations are just that, and most are utterly meaningless, as it is in this case.

Make no mistake, it is *nothing* more than an excuse to raise rates and increase revenue, couched in an argument about statistical likelihood of risk. Fancy words for an excuse...

To clarify, because there seems to be some confusion here.

It's OK for insurance companies to base their rates on factors that influence risk. Driving more miles does increase risk, so basing rates on that factor is NOT an issue.

The issue is oil change places, mechanic shops and dealerships selling your private information WITHOUT your knowledge....to anyone, for any reason.

Insurance companies should be clear up front on how they are going to verify the information you give them and give you options like coming to your agent once a year to verify your mileage if you want a 'low mileage' discount or installing a tracking device in your vehicle. They should also have an option for people who do not want that hassle. Just go ahead and charge a higher rate and leave me alone should also be an option.

Oil change shops should CLEARLY and OPENLY inform you if they are selling your data - no option, and there should be VERY stiff penalties for selling your data without informing you and getting your affirmative consent.

That's the issue.

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Originally posted by ensigmatic:
....]

And yet insurance companies seemed to do just fine at making money 20 years ago without taking credit scores and miles driven into account.

I should have clarified my issue is with any contrived reason they can get away with.

Driving record, location, vehicle type, age/gender, all the things they used to use are obvious and reasonable. Some of the others is a thin connection at best or even anecdotal.

If they are going to try and cover every possible area, then how come I don’t get asked whether I drive off hours or opposite of rush traffic (I do, grave yard shift).

Far fewer cars out and not spending time in rush hour congestion when I am on the road would seem to greatly lower the risk, no? Sorry, no one offers a discount for that.

Then add in the money insurance companies “donate” to police departments for RADAR/LASER equipment and to pay Off duty money to police for enforcement emphasis (sure, it’s for “safety” - not to line their pockets by rate increases due to the tickets issued...)

Legalized pyramid scheme as far as I am concerned.

I agree we should be informed clearly that our data is being sold
by a merchant to a third party for resale, and what data is being sold
and we should have the option to opt out of that for privacy reasons.

As to the attacks on insurance companies for wanting to validate mileage
claims of people buying insurance I see no problem with this, if you are
under estimating miles to be rated lower then its no different than stealing.

You are stealing from the company that is covering your risk at a false
reduced rate, and from other drivers who are insured and paying the correct
rate for their use.

The only folks upset are the ones getting caught.