quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Insurance companies should be clear up front on how they are going to verify the information you give them and give you options like coming to your agent once a year to verify your mileage if you want a 'low mileage' discount or installing a tracking device in your vehicle. They should also have an option for people who do not want that hassle. Just go ahead and charge a higher rate and leave me alone should also be an option.

I only wish this were the case. I inquired about this exact thing as my car just basically sits in a locked garage 99% of the time. The only thing a new carrier requested was to have my agent verify my original mileage when I started the policy. Unfortunately, in my case driving so little miles would give me an annual discount if they gave these types of discounts...they do not. I'd suspect that they would give up some $$ my way and wouldn't make more money for them, so they don't do it!

As for a mileage device only, I'd be all over that! They only have a plug in for driving recordings, braking, speed, acceleration, etc. And they only allow it to be in the on board computer for 6mos to base your rate, you then have to send it back to them.

I couldn't agree more about selling your info though I never knew they did. Thanks for the info. In my case however it wouldn't matter too much because of my driving mileage is so low. Actually if I could, being retired, I'd enjoy driving a whole lot more if I was up to it!

This has been going on for years unfortunately.
When we bought our Porsche my agent asked me how many miles we anticipated putting on yearly as it was just a summer toy. He said as long as you are below some magic number (I can't remember exactly) he could give me a very reduced rate.
I pay less for that car than my pick up that cost half as much.
Also, I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee last year and in reading the owners manual there was a section that said Jeep collects data on your driving habits....WTH do they do with this data??

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
The only folks upset are the ones getting caught.

You couldn't be more wrong.

What I'm upset about is the practice and I've asked our agent to tell us the specific source of that data. I suspect it's a local car dealer, and will let them know how inappropriate that is and do everything I can in between my day job to out them for taking money for this data on top of the outrageous prices I'm already paying them.

In every instance I've had low-mileage policy there's an expectation to periodically report it and I've occasionally been asked for some clear evidence of that. This is taking that to a whole new level.

Damn them for stopping us from lying to them about our low-mileage driving so we can get the low miles discount.

(Although I do think it is distasteful for the oil-change places to sell that information without disclosing it. I use Juan to change my oil, and I doubt he is on Geico's list of providers.)

How does the oil change place and insurance companies cross reference the data. Does valvoline give state farm the VIN number for the million vehicles they serviced and state farm have to filter out which are there customers?

Yeah, state farm sucks, big time!~

Virtually everything we have is insured with them.

I was recently involved in a very minor fender bender. A guy was in the center lane, I wanted to pull out into the left lane which was clear.

The asshole decided to change into my lane, without signaling, and hit the front left corner of my truck. He was on his "smart phone" at the time, stayed on it until the police told him to shut it down.

Very minor damage to his car, scraped bumper on my truck. Police told us to report to our insurance companies and left.

State farm decided it was my fault, based on dash cam video from the car that hit me.

Strangely, or maybe not, both the other driver and the claims twit both had middle-eastern names.

Review of the dash cam video which he provided to the insurance company after the fact, showed him changing into my lane. State Farm did exactly jack shit to cover me.

We have 4 houses, 3 vehicles all covered with State Farm, and I am about to bring up with my other half that we need to change that. And we have been with State Farm for well more than 30 years.

As to those oil changes robbery places, I also change my own oil and have since I acquired my first vehicle.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
I've changed my own oil for 17 years. I do it myself for a variety of reasons, this is more justification to me.

We're using State Farm now. A 2014 Kia Sportage is $114 a month and a 2003 Honda Civic is $104 a month. Really? The Civic has 171,000 miles on it , it's fully paid off and I only have liability on it.

Looks like we'll be switching soon.

Something is not right there I have State Farm and my 2002 Explorer was $82 a month full coverage and got rid of it for a 2014 Sienna full coverage is $102.

Probably depends on locations!

quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
Well when I get my car smogged every 2 years i know they note the mileage and their computer is plugged right into the computer in Sacramento.

Same here in VA. At least in Northern VA, AKA MD south.

State Farm can't tell you the specific company that gathered it because they work with over 5,000 business nationwide, per my agent.

What they CAN do is tell you specifically the date it was reported. That makes it pretty easy for most folks unless you happen to have a string of service and related events in the same time.

In my case, they confirmed by this date, with 2 month gaps of the car being in any other hands, that it was definitely Mercedes of Jackson who is selling my data. Apparently to help prop up their $195/hour shop rate.

So myCARFAX.com let’s you sign up for a free account and see your own cars history. You give them the VIN, say it is your car and then you have access to information such as when the registration expires, outstanding recall notices, smog inspection dates, and vehicle service records with mileage noted.

I get my vehicles oil changes at the two local Ford Dealers (actually cheaper than Jiffy lube type places), sure enough oil change dates and mileage from one of the two dealers I go to are noted on the CARFAX report.

Maybe from now on I will stick to the dealer that isn’t reporting the info....

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Damn them for stopping us from lying to them about our low-mileage driving so we can get the low miles discount.

(Although I do think it is distasteful for the oil-change places to sell that information without disclosing it. I use Juan to change my oil, and I doubt he is on Geico's list of providers.)

'Distasteful' or a criminal violation of privacy?

How about grocery stores, no let's say all retail establishments selling your purchasing information to health and life insurance companies?

Nothing to hide, no problem, right? Let's see Mr. Jhe888, it says here that you bought 3 pounds of bacon last month, care to explain? You said that you are a 'moderate' drinker, but in the last 6 months you have purchased 3 cases of Bourbon? What about the pair of skis you purchased? I think we need to adjust your life insurance rates, you liar!

It's a slippery slope and should be terminated with prejudice.

<For the record, I've never claimed low mileage since I have a 90 mile daily commute which I told my agent when I got my vehicle insurance.>

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
Driving record, location, vehicle type, age/gender, all the things they used to use are obvious and reasonable. Some of the others is a thin connection at best or even anecdotal.

In your opinion.

Why should age or gender matter? Seems incidental to me. You're either a good driver or not. Same with location. So I live in a "bad" location. If my vehicle's parked in a garage and spends most of its time outside that location, what does my home address matter? Vehicle type: Ditto. My new ride has a Hemi in it. I drive it no more aggressively than I did the old vehicle with a 6-banger in it.

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
If they are going to try and cover every possible area, then how come I don’t get asked whether I drive off hours or opposite of rush traffic (I do, grave yard shift).

So you're on the road when the greatest number of people that have been drinking are?

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
Legalized pyramid scheme as far as I am concerned.

I do not think that term means what you think it means.

Btw: There are three states that disallow using credit scores in determining insurance rates: Massachusetts, Hawaii and California. What do each of these states have in common?

what we really need to do is figure out how to flood their systems with fake data to tiotally corrupt their data bases

I do think you should know who is selling your data, BUT - I'm glad carfax gets that info. I like buying a used car that has a clear record of getting serviced every 5000 miles. My last purchase was a truck that had been taken to the dealer for every service from time purchased until time I bought it... Nice to know. I feel a little better about it not being neglected.

I suppose it could be faked...but probably not.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:


Why should age or gender matter? Seems incidental to me. You're either a good driver or not. Same with location. So I live in a "bad" location. If my vehicle's parked in a garage and spends most of its time outside that location, what does my home address matter? Vehicle type: Ditto. My new ride has a Hemi in it. I drive it no more aggressively than I did the old vehicle with a 6-banger in it.

Those are all demonstrably statistically relevant to claims rates. What the insurance company can't afford to do is examine each insured to see if that person does things to mitigate the risk factors. Or they could, but then the rates would be higher to account for the cost of doing individualized underwriting.

Then they shouldn't be in business at all, because they can't actually afford to do it right. ^

Judge me for me, you for you, and nothing else. I am not (insert any group), nor are you.

It's a misuse of statistics, and an excuse to cut corners and increase revenue.

It's not risk mitigation, it's revenue enhancement - based on bullshit, plain and simple.

quote:

Originally posted by just1tym:
Yea, but on the other side of the coin for drivers like me who drive less than 1,000 miles a year..Will they offer me any discount? Bastids!!

Yes.

That's the whole point of this.

People are claiming low mileage discounts.

Then, turns out, they aren't actually driving low miles. So now their discount goes away.

When you get insurance, they ask you how many miles you drive. Your rates are based on this.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Then they shouldn't be in business at all, because they can't actually afford to do it right. ^

Judge me for me, you for you, and nothing else. I am not (insert any group), nor are you.

It's a misuse of statistics, and an excuse to cut corners and increase revenue.

It's not risk mitigation, it's revenue enhancement - based on bullshit, plain and simple.

Pooled risk and averaging over a large group is the essence of how insurance works. That is actuarial practice. Your idea of how to do it would make insurance impossible.

I know you won't agree, but it is the reality of how insurance is possible. Risk can't be as accurately measured as you wish it could be. Insurers have to generalize. In some ways, if risk could be that accurately measure, insurance wouldn't really be needed.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Then they shouldn't be in business at all, because they can't actually afford to do it right. ^

Judge me for me, you for you, and nothing else. I am not (insert any group), nor are you.

It's a misuse of statistics, and an excuse to cut corners and increase revenue.

It's not risk mitigation, it's revenue enhancement - based on bullshit, plain and simple.

Pooled risk and averaging over a large group is the essence of how insurance works. That is actuarial practice. Your idea of how to do it would make insurance impossible.

I know you won't agree, but it is the reality of how insurance is possible. Risk can't be as accurately measured as you wish it could be. Insurers have to generalize. In some ways, if risk could be that accurately measure, insurance wouldn't really be needed.

Quit being reasonable.

Why would insurance companies increase rates based on facts that don't actually matter? What possible incentive is there to do that? The insurance business--especially car insurance--is fiercely competitive. Maybe you've noticed how may insurance ads there are on TV and radio? If an insurance company could offer lower rates to a group, say those with low credit ratings, and have no impact on their assumed risk, of course they'd do that. Understanding what increases or decreases risk is these companies' bread and butter. If there weren't some demonstrable connection to risk, they wouldn't care about it.

Upon retirement I ask my agent about reducing my rate due to severely reduced driving mileage. She said, ah no we don't offer that, but might need to raise your rate due to senility.
As I was driving away I looped around the parking lot to exit by her window, waving at dash board level while scrunched down peering through the steering wheel.

Fumoto valve and four Rhino ramps make oil changes pretty painless.