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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
In what respect have they failed to follow through? There are 100 of them, 100 of the most powerful egomaniacal men and women in the country, all under enormous pressures from every side. They hope to thread their way through the various issues and challenges adequately to be able to win re-election for the most part. Each has some level of ability to persuade but not control the others. I submit it is not their fault that the voters have not given them a pat hand, sure and easy of winning. I submit they have been playing the hand that has been dealt as best they can. Moreover, the game is not over yet. The same voters sent a majority of Representatives to office back in 2010 but for which this never would have happened at all. You were doubtless one of those voters, so by your logic, this is all your fault. It may not happen this year. Look how long Congress argued back and forth over slavery. Look back to the battle over civil rights, prohibition. The system is set up to require that there be a broad consensus of view before anything too big can happen. If voters abandon the fight to repeal, it means they accept it, and will live with it. it has taken 7 years to get bare majority in the Senate. Anyone who knows these things knew it would take 60 votes to be sure of success. Why is this a surprise, or a disappointment? Reconciliation is complicated and very limiting, fraught with difficulties. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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Striker in waiting |
It is also a convenient parliamentary construct, designed as a work-around to the filibuster, the latter of which has no basis whatsoever in the Constitution. 51 votes. That's all it takes if someone had the balls to make the rule change. -Rob I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888 A=A | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
Making the change doesn't take balls. Living with the result might. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
Just like obama spent 100s of millions of dollars "selling" obamacare to the people, the Trump administration should start an advertising campaign educating the general population how bad obamacare actually is. We need to shift as large a per centage of the population as we can to truly demand a full repeal. | |||
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Member |
^^^ ( I was referring to JALLEN's comment) I will agree with you that "perhaps" they are not done with this effort but keep in mind that they have had 8 years to draft at least an outline of the legislation that would be needed and they failed to do that..Also the House has 435 members and they got something passed so why couldn't McConnell get 50 senators to get something passed. I'm sure you know that the real closed door work takes place in reconciliation and by that time it's just a footnote in history and the press has moved on to another crisis... As far as the repeal of slavery goes and the time it took, I just turned 60 so I wasn't there then... ------------------ Eddie Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
$100 million and it passed by one vote? It's been argued and bitched about, coverages down, premiums up, you can't keep your doctor or plan, and repeal still needs selling, after 7 years? Are people stupid? Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Member |
Yes they are... ------------------ Eddie Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive.  |
It remains an enormous lose-lose to do anything with it at all. A full repeal without a replacement is a fantasy outcome, changing the thing slightly but keeping the gist of rest - whether fully repealed first or not - is a terrible outcome. The is no possible scenario that involves messing with it that can actually be accomplished and also be considered a win that is actually conservative in any way. Fail, fail, fail is what happens if they fuck with it at all. Wait and see. Mayyyyyyyybe, if it fails on its own in its current form, will we have a decent chance. | |||
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Info Guru |
Maybe Trump is following this thread?   “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” - John Adams | |||
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Member |
We see a lot about how Republicans ran on a promise to repeal Obamacare. Does anyone know of an article or report detailing which of the current senators are actually quoted as saying that in their campaign or rhetoric? I haven't had a chance to research it. Thanks. _______________________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Range Safety Officer | |||
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| Partial dichotomy |
Absolutely! Just like mikeyspizza said, get on prime time television and tell the masses the truth about all of it! Take the time to "try" to get people on our side. Air the bullshit and state facts. SIGforum: For all your needs! Imagine our influence if every gun owner in America was an NRA member! Click the box>>>  | |||
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| bigger government = smaller citizen  |
My biggest beef is with how they slipped in "and replace" as if it were always a thing. “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.”—H.L. Mencken | |||
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Political Cynic |
now that this has failed, I think that the republicans (or RINOS), need to focus on something else let Obama care fail completely, and the republicans can claim it wasn't their fault, they didn't vote for it or modify it - they let it do what it was designed to do we will end up back where we were 8 years ago with the feds out of the healthcare business the markets will figure it out faster and better than the government [B] Against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
unbelievably (at least to me), the Repeal thing is DOA too. http://hotair.com/archives/201...without-replacement/ Shelley Capito (R) Sen WV:  a good example of why we need a massive, brutal anti-obamacare campaign people (even REPs) are acting like obamacare is an overall good thing | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
^^^ How does one Senator's comment to the press looong before the vote tell you that full repeal is DOA? Come to think of it, why are you letting an NPR prognostication (that's the fancy word for "guess") convince you that it's all over?
If full repeal passes - - Everyone will say the move was telegraphed when Trump said "this bill passes or I support full repeal", and - The Dems will scream that the defections and the addition of Cruz' amendment were part of a set up so that the Dems would be portrayed as obstructionists (hah!) and the Reps could just steamroll OCare out of existence. But first it has to pass. | |||
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| Member |
That was discussed earlier in this thread. President Trump talked about "replace." I always thought that he was holding himself open for a wide variety of reforms, including the free market. I like the idea of repeal with a sunset but it seems to me that the sunset period should encourage the free market to reengage. If they're going to throw money at something, I'd rather see it go to encouraging a free market while providing some mechanism for those who are ill to have reasonable, affordable access. I am skeptical about many senators when one sees just how much money was spent by the health lobby. This LINK shows it by overall industry but breaks it down by companies as well. Blue Cross, for instance, gave $3,730,000.00 in campaign contributions just this year according to the Center for Response Politics. Huuum. Just what are they buying? _______________________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Range Safety Officer | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
So... in December, 2015 she was in favor of a repeal bill... but now, a year and a half later, she has discovered how wonderful Obamacare is? December 03, 2015: WASHINGTON, D.C. — U.S. Sen. Shelley Moore Capito voted Friday for the Restoring Americans’ Healthcare Freedom Reconciliation Act, a bill that repeals Obamacare. “Americans deserve a health care system that works for them and Obamacare is not it. I have consistently voted to repeal and replace this disastrous health care law, and I am glad that a repeal bill will finally reach the president’s desk,’ Capito said in a statement. “This legislation will enable us to revisit the problems caused by Obamacare and replace them with reforms that provide quality, affordable care for all Americans.” http://wvmetronews.com/2015/12...to-repeal-obamacare/ "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
There's your answer - and her out. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
No, it's not. The bill she voted for did not replace. “This legislation will enable us to revisit the problems caused by Obamacare and replace them with reforms that provide quality, affordable care for all Americans.” It would allow us to revisit the problems caused by Obamacare and replace them... later, in the future. But she voted for the repeal. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
Representative Mark Meadows making a move on Paul Ryan ? http://www.breitbart.com/big-g...w-replacement-later/ House Freedom Caucus chairman Rep. Mark Meadows (R-NC) is joining with President Donald J. Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell in pushing for Congress to send a clean repeal of Obamacare to President Trump’s desk now, and work on the replacement later. Meadows, who is making the call in an exclusive statement to Breitbart News, joins them as both Trump and McConnell called for clean repeal of Obamacare to go to Trump now and a replacement later after the Senate health bill failed late Monday. When Sens. Jerry Moran (R-KS) and Mike Lee (R-UT) came out against the bill—joining Sens. Rand Paul (R-KY) and Susan Collins (R-ME)—Trump and McConnell called for clean repeal of Obamacare now then a bipartisan replacement plan later. Meadows is joining the president and Senate Majority Leader, as House Speaker Paul Ryan—whose “American Health Care Act” approach that aimed to repeal and replace Obamacare in one fell swoop started this whole mess months ago—remains silent. “The Senate should continue to negotiate on the replacement bill but at a minimum give President Trump the opportunity to sign into law something that Barack Obama vetoed,” Meadows told Breitbart News on Tuesday morning, referring to the 2015 bill that repeals Obamacare in its entirety. That bill passed both chambers of Congress and was vetoed by now former President Barack Obama. Ryan remains silent on the matter. | |||
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