quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:


Stop trying to pass judgement until we know what really happened.

So we don't know what happened and we can't pass judgement but I'm already wrong, eh? That's rich considering I've seen a number of comments that are incredibly callous about the death of a citizen at the hands of law enforcement, coming up with justifications like 'well, he shouldn't have been there' and shrugging it off with 'shit happens'. Some of you practically celebrate the deaths of your political opponents and then act like those same opponents are evil for their response to things like Charlie Kirk's death and for protesting what they believe to be government overreach.

It would be hilarious if not for the fact that the generations after us will pay the price for this tribal bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by Jumper:

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

Anyone who knows what they are doing maybe. But let’s not act like all these leftist protesters who weren’t in the streets 4 years ago or 12 or 16 years ago, know what they are doing. They don’t even know what they are mad about. Many are anti-gun leftists who learned everything they know about guns from movies and TV shows.

Now I don’t know anything about this one person but I’ve seen enough leftist gun violence to know that many of them have no idea what they are doing with guns and carry shitty cheap guns with shitty airsoft optics to think that a guy “undergunned” doesn’t have ill intentions.

TLDR: even stupid people can be dangerous.

Expensive pistol, red dot sight, spare mags, putting himself in the middle of a bunch of armed and armored LEOs without his weapon drawn and choosing to piss them off... I'm not convinced that you really believe what you just wrote.

I don’t know anything about you other than what you’ve posted recently. So I won’t make assumptions.

But unlike leftists, I don’t say something I don’t mean. So I said what I said because I believe it.

Maybe this dude was an exception to the rule. Or maybe he went into a gunshop after spending his entire life hating guns and asked for a gun and bought one that happened to be an okay gun.

I don’t know. But I 100% know you don’t know either.

Your assumption that because he was undergunned he was not a threat is 100% an assumption. My comment is based on fact.

He had a gun. He actively decided to engage and resist law enforcement. He found out.

Y'all, seemed to forget that SF isn't the comment sections of YT, Instagram, TikTok and certainly not the cesspool of Reddit.

SF is the local diner, that opens at 6AM for the farmers and truck drivers, those who chose it as their regular spot. Families driving cross country for vacation and getting recipes and cat/dog pics. It's America before COVID.

SF is a slow roll. Pull up a chair, order a coffee, hot coco, tea, bourbon...OODA loop your self:

Observe
Orientate
Decide
Act

Understand your are in a group with people with acknowledged expertise...yes there are folks that know more than you in nearly every subject!

What makes SF so meaningful in my life is reading more and typing less.

This is the magic of SF and what truly makes it stand out in this "I have opinions and they matter!!!" world we live in. Opinions, wishful thinking, and even delusion is great until they meet the wall of reality of folks that do things for a living.

On this board we have LEOs on the street every single day that tell us what they have to deal with...yet, for some of you, Reddit is truth?

SF is going down in history as the last best place to shut the hell up and listen and here is your coffee, tea, coco, and/or bourbon with your cat/dog pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
You be the judge.

OK, I’ll play:

The slide isn’t back, it’s the beaver tail that goes from a hard to see side view to an easy to see top view as the gray jacket guy rotates the gun clockwise while he’s walking away. The black optic covers the back of the slide such that you wouldn’t see the FDE slide extend past the gray jacket guy’s hand from the top view at that point in the video. What you would see, if the slide was closed, is the gun’s beaver tail extending past gray jacket guy’s hand. Also, that slide mounted optic never moves. It’s in the same position relative to the guy’s hand the entire time.

I’m assuming he’s holding the handgun in the picture posted earlier reported to be the protestor’s gun. Really, I have no clue what the gray jacket guy is holding. The camera’s compression algorithm loses a lot of detail.

Edited to add:

I just looked again and it’s not the gun’s beaver tail but rather just a crease in the person’s pants gray jacket guy is walking past.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: trapper189,

Don't be an armed jackass in chaos.

That's all it takes to not get killeded.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
Don't be an armed jackass in chaos.

That's all it takes to not get killeded.

Exactly. Don't start none and there won't be none.

quote:

SF is going down in history as the last best place to shut the hell up and listen and here is your coffee, tea, coco, and/or bourbon with your cat/dog pictures.

Perhaps one of the best posts I’ve read since I joined a couple of years ago…

quote:

Originally posted by sooma:
Y'all, seemed to forget that SF isn't the comment sections of YT, Instagram, TikTok and certainly not the cesspool of Reddit.

SF is the local diner, that opens at 6AM for the farmers and truck drivers, those who chose it as their regular spot. Families driving cross country for vacation and getting recipes and cat/dog pics. It's America before COVID.

SF is a slow roll. Pull up a chair, order a coffee, hot coco, tea, bourbon...

Damn straight! Good post, sooma.

quote:

Originally posted by Jumper:

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:


Stop trying to pass judgement until we know what really happened.

So we don't know what happened and we can't pass judgement but I'm already wrong, eh? That's rich considering I've seen a number of comments that are incredibly callous about the death of a citizen at the hands of law enforcement, coming up with justifications like 'well, he shouldn't have been there' and shrugging it off with 'shit happens'. Some of you practically celebrate the deaths of your political opponents and then act like those same opponents are evil for their response to things like Charlie Kirk's death and for protesting what they believe to be government overreach.

It would be hilarious if not for the fact that the generations after us will pay the price for this tribal bullshit.

I’m pretty sure the difference in you and most of the forum is there’s not a circumstance in your world where an “AGENT OF THE GOVERNMENT” can be in the right. To you the guy was the Omar “some guys were doing some things” instead of acknowledging the riots and active assaults. The difference in you and I is that I support lawful displays of the Second. There’s not a version of this where this cat didn’t go down there with the intent to commit a crime. Good shoot or not. The video shows at least that much.

You and I are not the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
Don't be an armed jackass in chaos.

That's all it takes to not get killeded.

Mars, the only reason I carry a gun is because I can't be sure when chaos will show up. Of course I suspect just about every member here knows you don't go where the chaos is actively if you can avoid it.

quote:

There’s not a version of this where this cat didn’t go down there with the intent to commit a crime. Good shoot or not. The video shows at least that much.

Yep. Almost the definition of FAFO.

The left looks at the video and says he was already disarmed, prior to the first shot being fired. I'm not so sure. I can't tell if that's the perp's gun being pulled away by the grey hoodie guy, or not.

But either way, that guy was looking for trouble. Let the investigation play out.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
Don't be an armed jackass in chaos.

That's all it takes to not get killeded.

I carry every time I leave my house, and things I would not do:

1. Carry without an ID and without my permit.

2. Stop by my local riot while armed.

3. Antagonize ICE or any other law enforcement agency while armed or even while unarmed.

4. Resist and fight when it becomes clear that I am being detained, lawfully or otherwise while armed.

5. Ignore the fact that lawyers are for sorting out any issues with law enforcement, not my fighting abilities.

Choosing to ignore these simple principles is likely to get you arrested, beat down or shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Jumper:


So we don't know what happened and we can't pass judgement but I'm already wrong, eh? That's rich considering I've seen a number of comments that are incredibly callous about the death of a citizen at the hands of law enforcement, coming up with justifications like 'well, he shouldn't have been there' and shrugging it off with 'shit happens'. Some of you practically celebrate the deaths of your political opponents and then act like those same opponents are evil for their response to things like Charlie Kirk's death and for protesting what they believe to be government overreach.

What we do know is that an armed man intentional impeded and engaged federal officers lawfully executing their duties. He got into a physical altercation with them.

The only possible punishable action by an ICE agent would be an intentional and unjustified killing. If an agent knew he was not armed and not otherwise a threat, yet shot him, then that would be on the agent.

Imho, anything else is on the dead guy. Even if it turns out he had been disarmed and the agent with his gun accidentally discharged it, which caused other agents to shoot the guy.

This event is nothing like Charlie Kirk, which anyone can see.

quote:

I’m pretty sure the difference in you and most of the forum is there’s not a circumstance in your world where an “AGENT OF THE GOVERNMENT” can be in the right. To you the guy was the Omar “some guys were doing some things” instead of acknowledging the riots and active assaults. The difference in you and I is that I support lawful displays of the Second. There’s not a version of this where this cat didn’t go down there with the intent to commit a crime. Good shoot or not. The video shows at least that much.

You and I are not the same

The video clearly shows this guy interfering with an arrest and then resisting arrest. I’m not going to pass final judgement on the shoot until all facts are in. Whether he’s disarmed or not you see a guy resisting while other agents yelling gun, my own assumption would be he’s got bad intentions. I carry a gun because you never know when bad can happen, I don’t go willingly into bad things. I don’t fill up my car at or hit ATM machines at night if it can be avoided either. I personally feel that I have a greater obligation to avoid trouble at all costs than carrying because if I can avoid taking a life or losing mine I will. Bad guys just have to get lucky. This guy may have been writhing his rights up until he got involved in a lawful arrest, but that doesn’t take away from the fact his actions were retarded. I have met and know many people that strap on a gun and feel all sorts of empowerment and take risks beyond reason. I suspect this guy was one of those people.

I have said for years that this country has to choose to go one way or the other. These two competing ideologies cannot coexist. One side believing in law, order, freedom, and personal responsibility and the other adopting full fledged communist/socialist ideology. Ten years ago the ideologies were not split along geographical lines with many states purple by voting mass. The red voters have migrated to red states and some of the blue voters have gone the other way. One side has gone kinetic with crazy trannies shooting up schools and churches, assassinations, and assassination attempts. Now they’re freaking out about the other side is fighting back and going kinetic. The parallels to the 1850s are eerily similar. We inch closer toward this conflict finding permanent resolution.

I remember several thousand of us attending a couple of Tea Party rallies about 20 years ago. I and most everyone else were legally armed. They were peaceful and joyous expressions of a political position, seeking changes to government policy. You could say they were political protests, complete with signs and chants.

Being armed at a protest is a patriotic statement as long as there is no intent to commit any crimes.

There's no similarity between those rallies and anything the left has done in the last decade.

These two sides see these events through such a different lense it is mind boggling. I saw the peaceful Tea Party protests and the other side saw insurrection. I saw the BLM riots and the other side said, “mostly peaceful protests”. I see this as “mostly violent riots” and they see it as a lawful protest. When state and local government officials tell people to interfere with the lawful enforcement of laws, they are encouraging insurrection. You can’t disobey laws just because you don’t like them! I understand that some laws may be deemed unconstitutional, but immigration laws are not. Just because the other side chose and still chooses to not enforce laws they don’t like, doesn’t mean the laws still don’t exist. Elections have consequences and I believe we are likely to see those consequences get exponentially worse.

The linked Twitter feed is a Cam Higby, an independent investigative journalist who has stumbled into getting access to the encrypted Signal chat that the commie agitators are using in Minneapolis to coordinate their attacks on ICE. If one reads through the thread, one can see that this is not a grass roots group of protesters, but highly organized shit-stirrers, even hints that MN PD might be helping them in intel. And who is funding all of this?

https://x.com/camhigby/status/...093523733733474?s=46

I can't tell anything about what happened in the video scrum. I will say that it's disappointing that we even have members here that buy the democrat narrative that those are 'peaceful' protesters in Minneapolis. I haven't seen one peaceful protester yet. Even those physically limited are blowing whistles and getting their heart rates up. The guy that got shot wasn't peacefully protesting. This is so clearly insurrection against the enforcement of federal immigration law as to not be debatable. The elected leaders remain in rebellion, and our legacy media supports the insurrection. It's perfectly okay for the country to operate in this manner if you don't like that pesky enforcement of federal law. For the rest of voters, there is lawlessness and a special group that gets to make their own laws. It's identical to the Old South not wanting to enforce federal civil rights laws. The law is clear. It's not good people on both sides. It might be wonderful to have empathy for all God's children, but your personal virtue signaling doesn't trump federal law.

Ran across a discussion from a former federal agent and now an attorney on LinkedIn. He had posted this image/caption.