quote:

Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
This is starting to be a common break down, I've heard of it in the various 6.7L diesel forums I'm on. Many are installing some sort of kit that helps to keep the whole engine from getting trashed in the failure, but not everyone agrees that it's preventable. Ford seems to know that there are a bad batch of these pumps...but won't admit to it. Everyone is saying not using lube in every fill-up can cause this. I remember talking to Ford when I bought my 2016 platinum, and they swore we never needed to do that with the new 6.7l

I'm more than worried about this. I'm $7k away from paying this thing off, and I've already had Ford completely change out the whole exhaust system due to the DPF crapping out. That was a $7.5K repair covered under warranty just 1,000 miles ago for me (at 46K miles on truck). I've had CEL codes twice since for the same sensor. My warranty is over soon, and I'm wondering if I should be keeping this truck or not.

I want to keep mine, but I just can't trust the modern crap that is so delicate and interdependent. I am on the hunt for an early f350 4x4 with the 7.3 or an early Dodge 3500 Cummins. I'll have to put extra funds into it to get it capable of towing my needs, but at least I wont need a 1/2 million dollar machine for diagnostics and resetting the computer after fixing broken things.

For these reasons, I tried ordering the new 7.3 but gave up for this year.

It’s unfortunate to hear about this.

When I went looking for a Superduty I had never had a diesel and so picked up a 2017 F250 XLT 6.2 gasser. I’m at 92k today and never had to take it in for a repair yet. The $9,000 or so off the sticker helped in that decision too.

I hope Ford will step up for you and rest of the owners who happen to have this problem.

quote:

Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
This is starting to be a common break down, I've heard of it in the various 6.7L diesel forums

I've got a not-so-close friend who had two failures on the same F250 for the very same reason. He paid for the first repair. His insurer paid for the second. Both times the fuel pump went and he had to have a body-off replacement of the entire fuel delivery system. The second time when he was pulling his dirt racing car to a race in Carolina. The engine crapped out on the way leaving him, his truck, his trailer, his race car and all this racing equipment, along with my at-the-time 16 year old son and my brother in law (who were part of his pit crew) stranded on the side of the road. He drives a Duramax powered Chevrolet, now. But I'm not sure they aren't without their own issues, though I haven't heard that they have the extent or frequency of this problem that Fords do. I think current Duramaxes have the same Bosch pump as 6.7L Fords so they very well may be troublesome, too.

Ford doesn't have a bad "batch" of fuel pumps. ALL of theirs, and all other makes (Chevy and Ram), Bosch CP4 pumps are bad. They simply can't handle American clean diesel. Ford's 6.7L Bosch CP4 fuel pump is a time bomb. It's not a matter of if, only when.

It infuriates me that after over 100 years of experience American car companies cannot make a decent pickup truck.

quote:

Originally posted by ChuckFinley:
It infuriates me that after over 100 years of experience American car companies cannot make a decent pickup truck.

They do. The 6.7L, the Duramax, the Cummins are spectacular engines. They'll go 500K or 600K miles or more. They just have bad fuel pumps. What infuriates me is that these manufacturers will go to a CP4 pump and after awhile know, without question, that they are defective, then blame the buyer. Under those circumstances, they deserved to be sued and hit hard.

Sigolicious, I don’t have any advice I can offer but I have been following this post completely shocked at the cost of repairs and issues with modern diesels.

I hope you can get Ford to stand by their product. Posts like this make me not want that new Bronco as much. If Ford can mess up a fuel pump so badly and treat their customers so poorly it makes me wonder what else they failed at when designing their vehicles.

Good luck and I hope to be reading about a resolution very soon.

I'm pulling for you Sigolicious. I've got a 2011 Duramax and I've always been worried about the catastrophic failure of the CP4. The consensus is that these are ticking time bombs, regardless of auto maker. On the Chevy forums, many people have retrofitted their trucks with CP3's as a preventative measure. Not cheap, but cheaper than a new engine. I'm seriously considering going back to a gasser when this one needs to be replaced. It's been a good truck, but I've had emissions system problems. Keep us posted!

For the record, Ford didn't mess up the high pressure fuel pump. It's an off the shelf part designed and manufactured by Bosch. It's been used on Powerstroke 6.7, LML Duramax, current 6.7 Cummins, 5.0 Cummins in the Nissan Tundra XD, 3.0 Cummins in the RAM 1500, etc.

The issue the OP is having, water contaminated fuel, is not the issue the Bosch CP4 high pressure pump could have. Water in the high pressure fuel system will mess up any diesel and it is expensive to fix. Ford determined there was water contaminated fuel because rust was found on the pressure control valve. My parents' had water contamination in their Cummins engines in their boat despite regular and proper maintenance of the Racor water seperators and filters. $7,000 each with remanufactured parts.

The issue with the Bosch CP4 is it uses a roller bearing under a cylindrical piston. The bearing follows a cam and the piston creates the fuel pressure. There other than the roller being wide and naturally following the cam, there isn't anything physically preventing the piston and roller from turning 90 degrees. If this happens the roller doesn't roll, the cam wears against the roller and metal shreds get pumped through the rest of the fuel system. Like other high pressure fuel pumps, fuel is used to lubricate and cool the bottom end of the pump before it gets pressurized and pushed to the injectors. The entire system from the pump to the injectors gets replaced. Cleaning the parts may or may not work. With shop labor rates, replacement makes economic sense.

I didn't know anything about this last week. Threads like these on this forum force me to learn. I sincerely hope sigolicious gets his truck fixed without shelling out a ton out of his pocket.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
My parents' had water contamination in their Cummins engines in their boat despite regular and proper maintenance of the Racor water seperators and filters. $7,000 each with remanufactured parts.

This, the OP's story, and all the other horror stories I've heard about diesel since as long as I can recall is why I'll never have a diesel-powered anything. I understand they're more economical, but the issues people have with them--geez.

By the time we got our sailboat, most sailboats had long been coming with diesel engines or people had swapped-out their gasoline-powered engines for diesel. All I can say is this: Fellow boat owners had one-problem-after-another with their diesel engines. The trusty old Atomic 4 gas engine on our boat never gave us a moment's trouble.

I wish the OP luck. I'd freak if I was faced with a $10k repair bill on my vehicle.

I worked on a tractor with a Bosch pump on it.

They left the fuel cap off and water got into it and absolutely DESTROYED the pump.

I cleaned the fuel tank, lines and replaced the filters twice before I put the new pump back on it.

This tractor had several filters plus a water separator in line behind and after the lift pump and it still got destroyed.

Why in the hell they would put such a fragile pump on a tractor I will never understand.

It's been running fine for two years now and they have me come out and change the filters.

I also put a chain on the fuel cap so they can't lose it again.

First off, that sucks, feel for you with the problem, and understand being upset, it's a big expense.

Just curious, have you seen the pump internals, or the pictures the dealer sent to Ford warranty that caused them to deny the claim from water damage?

Does the factory warranty coverage have a provision that voids the warranty for water in the fuel system.

IF so, was there water in the system? If so, then how is Ford to blame.

If anyone the Dealer is who you should be upset with for sending in pictures that showed the rust, but in their defense they don't want Ford to shut the dealership down for Warranty Claim Fraud. And that happens in the industry, people have lost dealerships over it.

Not sure how Fords to blame for water in the fuel damaging the pump. While I'm sure the dealer is "on your side" because they want the work and wonder how it's going to get paid if it's not happening without the warranty.

Best option is to ask for a visit from the factory area rep, ask the dealer to have you there when they visit, and hear the dealer explain it to the rep. If it's really a Ford or Ford sourced part that failed, regardless if water entered or not.

Ford denied the claim based on dealer supplied evidence, sounds to me like the Dealer knows what happened and are trying to defuse the situation and put it on Ford since they don't want you to take the work elsewhere.

I've had diesels and they are great, but it's one of the reasons I no longer own one, the fuel mileage is offset by the maintenance costs.

VW had the same issue on their engines 2009-2011 I think. Also a Bosch pump.
The blamed mis-fueling, low lubricity, high bio %, anything they could think of.

I was investigating adding extra filters on the pump exhaust to stop failed pump from taking the rest of the system with it.
Then diesel-gate happened and they bought it back.

Hope Ford come though on this for you.

I've been wanting a diesel truck for a long time, but a month ago I bought another gasoline powered 4x4. As far as I know, all current diesel vehicles in the US are susceptible to this. And it really only started with the introduction of 'clean diesel' and manufacturers using high pressure fuel pumps that are incompatible with 'clean diesel' fuel. I couldn't bring myself to touch a diesel these days.

Well, Geico Mechanical Breakdown Coverage has referred it to comprehensive for a claim since they determined "contamination" in the system.

Also, I have applied to be part of the class action suit over the CP4 fuel pumps with ford. Just waiting on contract paperwork with the law firm.

FML, I am sick over this.

Having had one or more diesel ford truck since the first one came out (I'm old) and a zillion diesel powered excavators, loaders, etc. this is somewhat a mixed reply.
1. Your best chance for help is to meet with the management of the dealer. And advise you will not be a happy (meaning very public complaints) if you don't get a satisfactory resolution to this issue. A one off NTSB and all the other federal options are not helpful. I just went through that on a Subaru that decided to stop itself while all alone on a highway.
2. Water in the fuel is not a Ford specific issue, though that doesn't mean they shouldn't help you. The issue is to prove that is what the issue is. Hopefully there is some record of the fuel drained from the filters. If that's intact drain and record it. Changing the filters on schedule is one thing, but you have to drain them based on what you get for fuel and water. Check that the WIF system is working and if not add that to your list.
3. It is absolutely mandatory that you keep water out of the fuel system. This has not changed since the very first diesel. The only way to do that on a modern truck where the mfg. doesn't do a great job on filtration/ water separation is adding addition capacity. Everyone should do that, and no matter what happens on paying for your truck when you get it back do that if you don't want this battle again.
4. The core cause of this is of course the EPA. They who without any real evidence decided to destroy the modern diesel. So now we have to have DEF, low sulfur fuel, HP rail injection systems etc. And the actual number of people helped by that? nearly zero. Make sure you write you congress critters and tell them what you think of this mess they created.

I had front brakes wear down to the caliper on a F150 at less than 20,000 miles. Mind you, brakes on my cars last at least 60K.

Dealer tried to tell me brakes are a wear item and not covered under warranty. I pointed out normal is not covered, this is abnormal.

Dealer acknowledged rear brakes were less than 25% wear. Even so, Dealer says nope, no idea how you drive brakes not covered by warranty.

I called Ford Warranty mothership, they basically told me they stand by their dealer’s decisions, but did confirm abnormal brake wear would be covered.

Went to a different Ford dealer, explained everything, gave them the case number from Ford. Asked them to check it out, look at the rear brakes, compare to front and explain how there could be wear to the rotors up front and 75+% left in the rear. Told them I had it documented from Ford Corporate that they would cover it as warranty if the dealer said it was abnormal.

Dealer #2 found a problem with front calipers not receding properly and keeping pads in contact with Rotors even without brakes applied, causing premature wear.

Dealer did complete new front brake calipers, rotors, pads under warranty.

Tentatively Geico has approved the comprehensive claim and is going to pay for the repair as the system was "contaminated". I say tentatively because the adjuster approved the claim verbally with me around 4:30 but has yet to notify the dealer or update the online system.

So rather than $10.5k repair bill I should only be out the deductible on my policy which I always have in savings for just this occasion.

Will update when I confirm with dealer tomorrow.

Water contamination is Ford's excuse. A poorly designed and inadequately performing CP4 pump is the real problem. When you get the truck fixed, the fuel pump will be replaced with another CP4 pump, and the moment it starts working, the clock on that time bomb will start.

Ford not only placed a pump on your truck they knew was defective and would fail, they lied about the cause and will make a profit from owners and insurers who pay to fix their defect. To me, that's as fraudulent as it gets.

That’s exactly how I look at it Micropterus. Even if Ford uses a vendor for parts the name on the vehicle is Ford and they should not allow shit products to ruin their reputation. Like it or not Ford fans this is 100% a Ford problem. They own it and should never have allowed it to happen.

Blame the epa or Bosch if you want but ultimately Ford should know better than to allow shit designs to be put on their products. A proper vehicle manufacturer would NEVER allow such a thing and if it did happen they would stand behind their product, take care of their customers and quickly and efficiently fix the problem so it doesn’t happen again going forward.