For some, military service has become just a job. There is no principle behind it other than 'what can I get for myself?'. To a patriot though, military service is selfless service to the principles of liberty and to protect those who cannot or will not protect themselves. The job is not a series of tasks that net personal gain. This is my perspective. It comes from a guy who did not even go as far as those who opted out. But I can say that I admire and appreciate patriots far more than job seekers.

US Marines have one primary purpose in this world. If you want to "opt out" of nutting up and fighting for your country, then why in the fuck did you join the Marine Corps in the first place??

Well said. I agree completely.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
For some, military service has become just a job. There is no principle behind it other than 'what can I get for myself?'

Truer words have never been spoken. This mentality rears it's ugly head when they get in and learn they can retire on a bullshit VA pension and milk the government for even longer than they originally intended.

Brings back a few memories.
June 1986 is when I was on the Island. No wars going on at the time.
We were told that Russia had sent some spies to enlist in the Corps and they would find out who they were.
They ran us, marched us and did everything they could to beat us down.
Started on the 3rd floor as new recruits and they had us grab our mattress from our bunks and run down 3 flights of stairs to the pit outside. Had one guy jump off the 3rd floor head first.
This is to test mental toughness and weed out who doesn't belong. Tragic that he jumped? Yes, but we didn't stop.
Drilling on the main parade deck in the middle of the day with full packs. Some recruits passed out because of the heat. They were drug off and we kept drilling.
Black flag day? Fuck you, keep going.
Basic is a test. A test of mental and physical toughness.
The choice to go to war is to weed out period.
Remember meeting the Senior DI, the Leuteniants and drill instructors. After they left, all fucking Hell broke loose.
Chalkboard with what to say in your first letter home. Done with that and then a diagram of how your foot locker was to be set up. Told what to do, when to do it and how to do it.
Don't want to do it? You're out. Don't want to go to war? You're out.

Rebekah with a K had better figure what she's going to do with her life. Serving her country is off the fucking list and I mean all the way off.

Denny's needs manager's, sweetheart. Think you can handle that? Or is the morning rush gonna be too tough for you?

You don't join the Marines so that you can play Putt-Putt at Disney World. GTFO dearie.

Well.... It seems that she was a thief of the food she ate and a trespasser in the bunk in which she slept.

I hope she doesn't suck up any VA resources that should be going to folks that actually earned them.

She should be marginalized until she's had enough and leaves. She damn sure has no business being attached to any fighting unit of Marines.

WHY are there women in the Marine Corps? Why? Why do we need women when the business of the Marines is being badass killers? Someone please tell me why women are necessary in the Marines.

Are we now defeating our enemies by filing false claims of sexual harrassment against them? Are we planning on scheduling our battles to run along a 28 day cycle?

I joined the Navy when I was seventeen for an education. I graduated high school on Friday night and went into the Navy on Monday morning.

I was in electronics training when the Tonkin Gulf incident occurred. I thought I would be safe as an electronics technician on a ship.

My first ship was a troop transport. We picked up Marines in San Diego and transported them to Da Nang where we acted as a floating hotel for Marines.

I was told that as the junior electronics technician, it was my duty to climb down the nets and ride the boats for radio repair. The first time I climbed down the nets with the Marines, the Boatswain Mate running the boat told me to forget radio repair. He showed me how to load and shoot the Ma Deuce 50 BMG. He told me that was my primary job.

Later, I received orders to advisor training and another tour in Viet Nam. My mother wrote her Congressman. My Captain and I received a letter from the Congressman saying I was an only child and did not have to go. I wrote the Congressman and said thanks, but no thanks. I spent a year as an advisor on swift boats after I was given the choice not to go. I also spent time in Viet Nam after that when I didn't have to go.

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:
I was a RDC at Great Lakes Boot camp for 4 years from 1998 -2002. I was there when the Cole was hit where one of the recruits from the first division I trained was killed. I was there during 9/11.

This exercise itself can be a very useful tool but the execution as described in the article, if factual, is fucked up 7 different ways to Sunday.

Since you actually have experience with this exercise, I have a question/comment for you.

It seems like it would be a great tool if used differently from how it was described in the article. Essentially afterwards: First of all, don't single those out that opted out, but instead have a more constructive discussion on how, if war actually happened, they wouldn't get the chance to opt out, and that they needed to understand the gravity of having enlisted into the US Military.

The scenario as described seems to have completely missed that mark and I can see how it would be just considered "hazing" instead of actually having been used as a learning tool.

The actual question for you is: is my scenario closer to how it would be used properly?

I cannot take credit for this being my story, it belongs to a Marine I know from the Vietnam era:

_______________________________

DIs and instructors do pull this kind of crap once in awhile, shit they can laugh at together later at Beer Call. But I've never heard of it pulled to this extreme. Here's an example of a "harmless" mind-fuck:

In our 1st week, we're standing in front of our racks at attention. The SDI (Senior Drill Instructor) introduces us to a Gunnery Sergeant holding a clipboard. The Gunny says: "All right recruits, listen up. This is the last opportunity for you to apply for an inter-service transfer before we get into the next phase of training.

"How many of you wish to transfer to the Army?" A few hands are raised. Names are taken.

"How many to the Navy?" A few more hands are raised. Names taken.

"How many to the Air Force?" The most hands are raised. Names are taken.

The Gunny hands the clipboard to our SDI and says: "Staff Sergeant Kaiser, here's a list of your motherfuckin traitors."

Bends and thrusts, ready begin.

The Gunny was our own Series Gunny.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:


Someone please tell me why women are necessary in the Marines.

Going to have to pass boss, nothing comes to mind, and I've been thinking about it for a long time.

quote:

Originally posted by wishfull thinker:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:


Someone please tell me why women are necessary in the Marines.

Going to have to pass boss, nothing comes to mind, and I've been thinking about it for a long time.

They shouldn't be in the Combat Arms of any branch.

----------------------------

Oh, sacrilege. Blasphemy. You will be declared a heretic.

The only issue I have with this is the 'crying wolf' aspect.

Have not been in the Armed Forces, have not been through basic training, so this could be all wet, but I have to imagine that they want graduates/servicemembers to believe what they are told and trust in what their officers tell them.

This exercise is a pretty big exception to that, with consequences for the overly-credible, and I have to wonder if it then puts the question into the back of the servicemembers' minds when they hear surprising announcements going forward during their service, "I wonder if this is real, or like that 'choice of going to war' exercise back in basic."

That said, finding out which of the volunteers actually know what they volunteered _for_ seems like a good idea.

40 years 3 months 16 days

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Oh, sacrilege. Blasphemy. You will be declared a heretic.

Heritic, gone tomorrow.

It is so much easier to answer why it's a man's job.

See the video of the three female cops in Sweden or where ever getting their colletive asses kicked by one mid-range miscreant.

How about the young woman tank mechanic assigned to my company in the early days of inclusiveness. She had to have one of the men on every. single. job. Apparently they missed the point that everything in, on, around, a tank is heavy, like really ass-busting heavy, because, you guessed it, tank.

How about the empirical evidence that so far no female lieutenant has passed the Basic Officer Infantry course at Quantico, only three have passed the basic enlisted course. Somebody will sometime but all this fuss for 3? Three ought to be a good reason to change the billeting in troop ships don't you think?

The Marines that I know whose service is far fresher than mine have the same feeling. At best it's an experiment, but there is no plus side even if it works for twice the number that have passed so far, that is, six.
Their greater fear is that as the majority of females can't pass the standards will be lowered. Even if it's just for the females that decreases speed and increases drag for the whole unit.

Of course their are guys that think women can serve in select areas where the threat of combat is reduced or non-existent. I'm not sure those places exist, they certainly don't in our current adventures.

quote:

posted by Jester814:

Since you actually have experience with this exercise, I have a question/comment for you.

It seems like it would be a great tool if used differently from how it was described in the article. Essentially afterwards: First of all, don't single those out that opted out, but instead have a more constructive discussion on how, if war actually happened, they wouldn't get the chance to opt out, and that they needed to understand the gravity of having enlisted into the US Military.

The scenario as described seems to have completely missed that mark and I can see how it would be just considered "hazing" instead of actually having been used as a learning tool.

The actual question for you is: is my scenario closer to how it would be used properly?

Again which branch? In the corporate world this is the interview immediately followed by your trial period, "I'm going to throw 13 pounds of shit on your back and lets see how you deal with it". "You want constructive discussion? Fine, I'll construct you with so many push ups and squat thrusts you fucking puke." "You hack up that fucking green lung cookie and spit it on my clean gravel, pick that shit up and put it back in your fucking mouth".

The recruit phase is all about learning, you learn about yourself and learn who will pussy out. You learn how to shave, cut your finger and toe nails, and not stick your dick in something rotten, you learn to jump when the word jump is given. This isn't about making good corporate employees it's about making warriors that will kill on demand without first having a constructive conversation.

Constructive conversation doesn't happen until you make it past this interview stage, the United States military has been culling POS fucks for about 200 years and can still smoke ass world wide, why the sudden concern about training warriors?

quote:

Originally posted by wishfull thinker:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:


Someone please tell me why women are necessary in the Marines.

Going to have to pass boss, nothing comes to mind, and I've been thinking about it for a long time.

Task forced with a gurl Marine SSgt from the Charleston brig during detainee ops in 2010, the "lady" broke one of my guard's arms during hand to hand training, it's in the attitude not the gender.

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine79830:

quote:

Originally posted by wishfull thinker:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:


Someone please tell me why women are necessary in the Marines.

Going to have to pass boss, nothing comes to mind, and I've been thinking about it for a long time.

Task forced with a gurl Marine SSgt from the Charleston brig during detainee ops in 2010, the "lady" broke one of my guard's arms during hand to hand training, it's in the attitude not the gender.

I've heard that a lot. One-offs happen all the time, I'm not buyin' it.

quote:

Originally posted by wishfull thinker:

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine79830:

quote:

Originally posted by wishfull thinker:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:


Someone please tell me why women are necessary in the Marines.

Going to have to pass boss, nothing comes to mind, and I've been thinking about it for a long time.

Task forced with a gurl Marine SSgt from the Charleston brig during detainee ops in 2010, the "lady" broke one of my guard's arms during hand to hand training, it's in the attitude not the gender.

I've heard that a lot. One-offs happen all the time, I'm not buyin' it.

OK, got it. I just hope to fuck Charlie's fucking Angels don't crash through your front window to bust you for something peace man!