Huh.

I do not recall this happening when I went to bootcamp. My initial instinct is non-approval of this type of "training" at bootcamp.

http://www.thestate.com/news/s...rticle147694804.html

Rebekah Kind knew something was different when she tried to leave the classroom to refill her canteen.

Kind, then a 28-year-old trainee from Zion, Ill., at Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island in summer 2016, was usually allowed to get water during lectures such as this one — staying hydrated was encouraged.

Not this time, though: She was ordered to sit down, and moments later a male Marine with an official-looking folder entered the room, which halted the history lesson on the Korean War....

They were doing it on San Diego in the '90s when I went through.
For some reason now, I can't remember if it was china, or Kosovo, who fired anti-ship missiles at a MEU, killing 800 Marines....

They asked for conscientious objectors.

I don't know. How many folks join the armed forces simply for an education or stepping stone or whatever.

I don't think a come to Jesus moment is wrong when training a volunteer army. A moment to drive home this is real and Killing and dying may likely come to pass at any moment.

Let me get this straight: they willingly joined the military and when "told" that they're going to war but they can opt out, they opt out and then get mad for being cowards?

WTF did they think they were going to do?

So they want to collect the benefits but not make any of the sacrifice?

The Army absolutely benefited me in more ways than I can count but I have also sacrificed a great deal in exchange for those benefits.

If they can't deal with something like that in initial training, how are they going to deal with actual war?

The guy deserves his OTH, I hope his appeal is denied and his benefits are denied. You don't HAVE to serve in today's military, you GET to serve in it. I bet he's the type of asshole who goes around telling people he's a war hero.

We did this in late 90's, but a different scenario.

We were told one of our Navy ships was attacked by China. Same thing, our boot camp experience would be accelerated, we would qualify on the rifle range, we would get a phone call home, and within a week we would be in a combat zone.

I remember the room being very quiet. 400+ recruits wondering what the hell was going on. Some were crying, some were smiling. I was in a stage of "What the fuck???"

I don't recall anyone being offered the option to tap out.

My uncle went through this at OCS during Viet Nam. But they meant it, his class was 8 weeks, and he was in Viet Nam a short time later.

This is a flawed exercise. I never had the privilege to serve in the Armed Forces. I was medically DQed for being forthcoming about my inhaler use. This was back in 2000.

Of course if you give people a choice about being in battle, possibly being killed, they will back out. When you join the military you give up that choice. You've given the power to send you to your possible death to a higher authority. Once you've taken the oath it can't be your decision any longer because like I said, some will back out.

I have to believe that if ordered to the front line of a conflict without being given a choice that most of those that stand up would follow that order.

But like I said, I never had the pleasure of serving so those that did serve may have a better perspective.

They should do this the first day of basic, so we taxpayers don't need to be wasting money to train them. Then show them the door.
This shows how far society and the military have been dumbed down.

When I joined, I took the oath without reservations. It was a blank check for up to and including my life. I took the oath several more times without reservations until I retired after twenty-two years including tours in Viet Nam.

I got no trouble with this.

Ask anyone who spent time as a POW in WWI, anyone who was captured in Korea with nearly 50% dying in captivity, or in a Vietnam POW camp and the beatings, cruelty and constant mindfuck. As any of those who have been captured in SW Asia in the past 26 years.

Everyone will tell you that the enemy would never do anything to you that might be mistaken for hazing.

Nothing they would do, defies our rights and freedoms, or how we wholesale deal with captured and interred combatants.

When I went in, "fighting" was what it was about, almost no one I knew wanted that, but we knew why we were wearing green uniforms and doing all the things were were doing, and none of it was to prepare us for College attendance under the G.I. Bill.

There was no "how to shop at the commissary" training. There was no "figuring the most effective way to buy booze at the Class VI, to get the most high for the number of punches on you card".

No drill on "How to calculate your PCOD when deployed."

No, we were there for the most serious business next to raising children.

When I was asked by my recruiter about CO status, and I asked exactly what does it mean, because at that point in time, I did not want to die, nor did I want to kill people I did not even know, and he explained in a certain analogy. I did not go all Arlo on the guy, but I made my decision right then and there, that I would fight and die, before I would ever cut and run.

Life is tough, Mother earth is a bitch and will kill her children in a second. A Paradox, our society values freedom and self determination to the point that we will give it all up and go to another's land and fight him there, in order to preserve ours here, and then we coddle our children so much that when put in a situation of self preservation and it being challenged, they fold up like a tulip in the dark.

Can't hack it? Here's some papers. Go home.

I have my opinions for sure.

Bottom line - there are a lot of 'jobs' in the military. Very few of them are combat-related. Most are medical, supply / logistics, commo, maintenance, etc.

There is a narrow subset of trainees who join fully committed / understanding of the concept of 'closing with and destroying the enemy'.

So exposing someone who signed up - to be a truck driver or fuel handler - that he / she doesn't want to go to war is not that surprising.

On the other hand - if you had a barracks bay full of infantry recruits I doubt anybody would have stood up. I served with both combat arms units (Infantry specifically) and combat support units (Signal specifically) and the mindset was night and day different.

In the Infantry - combat readiness is basically baked into your DNA.

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quote:

Of course if you give people a choice about being in battle, possibly being killed, they will back out

not so. At a PTA meeting I expect most people would back out. AT MCRD it would appear that most people said 'bring it'. A tiny minority opted to rethink their career choice. That certainly fits with my strongly held opinions on the matter.

They held this same exercise on me. In 1965 I was minding my own business and some knuckle head told me that a ship had been attacked in a gulf in S.E. Asia and all bets were off, the world just changed and we were going to a shooting war. OK, I'll admit it was a little different.

quote:

Originally posted by LimaCharlie:
When I joined, I took the oath without reservations. It was a blank check for up to and including my life.

I was owned for thirty-three years all but ten days, from the day I stood and gave my oath until the day I handed over my MoD ID, and watched it cut up in front of my eyes,

I think that this whole exercise in so-called 'hazing' is a crock of shit. Nothing like that happened in THIS man's Army.

tac

This drives home a very important lesson: Don't believe anything "the leadership" tells you.

Not to change the subject, but I will change the subject.

The State is a communist rag. MCRD Parris Island "hazing" has been anti-military blood in the water that the media bosses from outside South Carolina keep stirring. They run one of these stories every 2 - 3 months. The Raheel Siddiqui death investigation is the gift that keeps on giving.

What I am really waiting for is Fort Jackson and the next round of BRAC. I fully expect The State to trot out some crap that causes Columbia SC to lose the Army installation. The local media bird-dogs every Army recruit death until it is clear the DI's didn't choke the deceased with their bare hands or use harsh language that hurt the recruit's feelings. Forget the fact the Army is dealing with a generally sedentary and overweight recruit base ... and apparently the Army requires outdoor physical activity as part of the job.

Was this MCRD Parris Island exercise flawed? Apparently so when recruits were singled out.

What's the media's agenda in their pattern of reporting? That's what I am trying to figure out.

EDIT: More of the local media dogpile on the Parris Island investigations.

Sorry for the thread drift.

quote:

Of course if you give people a choice about being in battle, possibly being killed, they will back out.

I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Your own feelings I can only guess.

Don't make that assumption about everyone. The overwhelming majority of the people I served with went and did difficult things expecting with a decent chance that they wouldn't return. Keep in mind that post 9/11 a LOT of young people signed up for service. I joined pre-Kosovo, and I didn't really understand the cold war at the time. I thought I was joining during peace time, I did however reenlist post 9/11 have already served in and near combat multiple times. I found that people who couldn't deal with their fear were the exception, not the rule.

She earned her new label by standing up for it.

It's a gut check. They failed.

There are a bunch of people on "green welfare", it annoys me constantly. One officer I worked with claimed that there was a regulation that required us to be release at 1700. He still hasn't produced a copy. Yet he still gets paid the same as I do.

Not sure about other branches, but USMC Boot Camp is to train "basic combat ready Marines", regardless of their MOS.

So even after boot camp, and/or your MOS school, you are still expected to maintain "combat readiness". That is why PTF scores and rifle qualifications are (or should) be done on a yearly basis. I never missed either, but I have heard rifle quals were sometimes overlooked.

So as a Marine, you should expect to be thrown in a combat zone (I never was), even if your MOS has nothing to do with a combat objective. But you did take the oath, and you are a Marine.

God Bless All Our Troops, but if you sign up into the military, you should know what might happen. It's not an easy paycheck.

SOF training cadre tried this once....ended with both HALO ODA's fist fighting to see which Team got to HALO into the fight.


If your not on a HALO ODA you may miss the joke.

quote:

In the Infantry - combat readiness is basically baked into your DNA.

Statement of the day, right there, folks.


Hooah!