Traveling with Firearms New Harassment and Delays from TSA
From my experience on Tuesday flying from Phoenix to Anchorage, be prepared for additional harrassment and delays from the TSA when traveling with firearms.
Used to be in Phoenix was a simple process; declare firearms when checking in with the airline, sign the declaration form, put it inside the case and then walk it over to the TSA check point next to the airline ticketing counters where it was checked in.
I was told their. "New procedure" is now in effect when I checked in Tuesday afternoon. One must wait in the ticketing area to be escorted to the basement by a TSA agent. Once there, wait in the hallway with your TSA escort and other passengers before entering the inspection room. Only one traveler at a time allowed in the inspection room.
Once in the inspection room travellers are told to wait behind the gate, hand over the keys or combination to the locks on their cases while 3 TSA agents take the cases behind the gate for inspection. I was then told they would inspect my firearms and record serial numbers, to which I politely replied,
"Absolutely not!"
"Well, it's the new procedure"
A lengthy conversation ensued and eventually they backed down from their demands that they inspect them and record serial numbers. My declaration forms were enclosed in the cases, they locked the cases and returned my keys to me. They also swabbed the inside of my cases for explosive residue which seemed odd, I mean it is a rifle case after all and explosives are what makes firearms work. I had just enough time to get through security and make it to my gate in time for final boarding. Thankfully everything made it to Anchorage as well.
Worrisome to me is the fact that the TSA built out an inspection room within the airport. If they went to the trouble and cost of that, makes it seem like they have more restrictions planned for the future. The other frightening situation was the complete and total lack of firearms knowledge those doing the inspection had. When they opened my first case a Winchester 70 and Ruger No. 1 rifle were on the top level. My escort made the comment,
"You've got a couple of single actions there."
"No, those are a couple of my hunting rifles."
"Yeah, they're single actions, not like an AK-47 or anything."
Moral of the story; allow plenty of extra time, know the law and published procedures, don't just blindly go along with TSA requests without questioning and remain polite and respectful.
My daughter can deflate your daughter's soccer ball.
June 04, 2020, 07:51 PM
Rick Lee
Damn. I am picking up a Winchester Mod. 70 in a few weeks from my dad and planned to bring it back on the plane with me. I've flow in and out of PHL plenty of times with guns. Maybe I'll look into shipping it to myself.
Freewill Firearms 07 FFL, Class 2 SOT
June 04, 2020, 07:56 PM
sjp
If you ever have issues with TSA ask for thier supervisor. Keep pressing the matter they WILL back down.
Also if you want to bring a water bottle through security tell them its for medical purposes, they CANNOT ask further questions and will let you being a bottle through.
June 04, 2020, 08:05 PM
jljones
I’m not real sure about “new” procedures, but this has been in play in many airports, for many years.
I have never had a single bad experience flying with a checked gun. Phoenix has been this way for at least two years. A JV rifle team went through the last time I flew out of there. Poor TSA guy liked frazzled with the number of guns that went through there that day.
"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"
June 04, 2020, 08:09 PM
coloradohunter44
TSA is out of control. They had zero people to screen when I approached the other day. I found her to be rude, short, and generally a bitch. I promptly went to the counter and complained.
"Someday I hope to be half the man my bird-dog thinks I am." looking forward to 4 years of TRUMP!
June 04, 2020, 08:15 PM
Balzé Halzé
I thought you weren't supposed to hand over the lock keys to anyone including the TSA.
~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
June 04, 2020, 09:05 PM
BurtonRW
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé: I thought you weren't supposed to hand over the lock keys to anyone including the TSA.
You’re not. Make sure you have time to miss your flight when you press that one. BTDT - last time was @ PBI, which is usually fine.
-Rob
I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888
A=A
June 04, 2020, 09:21 PM
mark_a
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé: I thought you weren't supposed to hand over the lock keys to anyone including the TSA.
that was a fun conversation a couple of months back for me. Give me the key. With respect, no. back and forth dude turning redder and redder. Was afraid he was going to stroke out.
Suggested supervisory involvement. At first no, then yes. Supervisor was no better but at least she read the regs I had printed out.
Finally higher supervisor came in and explained the regs to them. Just barely made my flight.
Stayed positive and polite. Was really hard but I just kept telling myself these folks didn't mean to be stupid, they just were...
June 04, 2020, 09:32 PM
HuskySig
Just remember, TSA agents are burger flipping flunkies.
June 04, 2020, 09:38 PM
Rick Lee
Just asked my FFL about this and he said recording serial numbers was totally illegal.
Freewill Firearms 07 FFL, Class 2 SOT
June 04, 2020, 09:46 PM
sns3guppy
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé: I thought you weren't supposed to hand over the lock keys to anyone including the TSA.
Firearms When traveling, comply with the laws concerning possession of firearms as they vary by local, state and international governments. If you are traveling internationally with a firearm in checked baggage, please check the U.S. Customs and Border Protection website for information and requirements prior to travel. Declare each firearm each time you present it for transport as checked baggage. Ask your airline about limitations or fees that may apply. Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks. Firearm parts, including magazines, clips, bolts and firing pins, are prohibited in carry-on baggage, but may be transported in checked baggage. Replica firearms, including firearm replicas that are toys, may be transported in checked baggage only. Rifle scopes are permitted in carry-on and checked baggage. United States Code, Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, firearm definitions includes: any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, or is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; and any destructive device. As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm.
Ammunition Ammunition is prohibited in carry-on baggage, but may be transported in checked baggage. Firearm magazines and ammunition clips, whether loaded or empty, must be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm. Read the requirements governing the transport of ammunition in checked baggage as defined by 49 CFR 175.10 (a)(8). Small arms ammunition (up to .75 caliber and shotgun shells of any gauge) must be packaged in a fiber (such as cardboard), wood, plastic, or metal box specifically designed to carry ammunition and declared to your airline. Ammunition may be transported in the same hard-sided, locked case as a firearm if it has been packed as described above. You cannot use firearm magazines or clips for packing ammunition unless they completely enclose the ammunition. Firearm magazines and ammunition clips, whether loaded or empty, must be boxed or included within a hard-sided, locked case. Please check with your airline for quantity limits for ammunition.
June 04, 2020, 09:49 PM
sns3guppy
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Lee: Just asked my FFL about this and he said recording serial numbers was totally illegal.
Perhaps he'd care to cite the law that makes it illegal?
June 04, 2020, 09:51 PM
Balzé Halzé
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks.
Wow, when did they change that?
~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
June 04, 2020, 10:03 PM
sns3guppy
Rather than repost it, this thread has previously given links and excerpts, and relevant comments.
Yeah, I ran into that at PHL last month. They tied me up for 30 minutes which made me nervous. They were behind closed doors with an MP5 clone for the entire time. They didn’t mention recording S/N’s but did say it was new procedure. However, the other end of the trip, RSW, had none of that nonsense. It was quick and at the gate and over in 5 minutes.
La Dolce Vita
June 04, 2020, 10:20 PM
Edmond
The TSA (Totally Stupid Assholes) is why I drive, I don't care if it's a 24 hour drive, I'd rather do that than have to deal with them. I wish they would all be fired and screening returned to local LE.
Out of all the government waste out there, this is possibly one of the worst.
_____________
June 04, 2020, 10:35 PM
sgalczyn
I had no issues declaring a firearm from PHL to STL last week. Hopefully my return Friday out of STL is just as smooth.
UPDATE: No issue or delay checking-in at STL.This message has been edited. Last edited by: sgalczyn,
"No matter where you go - there you are"
June 04, 2020, 10:58 PM
Boss1
quote:
Originally posted by 2000Z-71:
...
The other frightening situation was the complete and total lack of firearms knowledge those doing the inspection had. When they opened my first case a Winchester 70 and Ruger No. 1 rifle were on the top level. My escort made the comment,
"You've got a couple of single actions there."
"No, those are a couple of my hunting rifles."
"Yeah, they're single actions, not like an AK-47 or anything."
That's the ridiculous part of it right there...all that effort...escorts, inspection rooms, etc. and then when you get to the actual point of the whole process...they don't have a qualified person to do the very thing they're supposed to be doing.
If they're going to go through all that effort, they should have someone qualified to actually competently perform the required inspections. Surely out of all the TSA's out in the airports, there's some that could be formally, properly training in safe firearms handling and safety checks. Pretty much something similar to the NRA's Home Firearms Safety course.
Like others here...unless its like 1000+ miles, I'll just drive unless its urgent business. C&C it...coffee and cruise control.
Funny, used to be airline passengers were treated like the paying clients they are.
Boss
A real life Sisyphus... "It's not the critic who counts..." TR Exodus 23.2: Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong... Despite some people's claims to the contrary, 5 lbs. is actually different than 12 lbs. It's never simple/easy.
June 04, 2020, 11:00 PM
sigmonkey
So... how many skyscrapers have been saved since 9-11 now? I've lost count.
"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב!
June 05, 2020, 12:27 AM
Fenris
quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey: So... how many skyscrapers have been saved since 9-11 now? I've lost count.
All of them?
God Bless and Protect our Beloved President, Donald John Trump.