quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
If your plane gets diverted to another airport (weather, mechanical, whatever), and the airport is unfriendly (NY, NJ), do not take possession of your bag. Even if the airline wants you to, you should refuse it.

A private citizen did this a few years ago in New Jersey. He legally checked the firearm in Salt Lake City, on his way to Allentown, and ended up with a delay at a connection in Newark. He overnighted with his luggage, and it was when he attempted to check back in that he got arrested.

https://www.foxnews.com/politi...led-to-supreme-court

He eventually won, but only after a lot of grief. It's not just where you check the firearm, but where you travel and where you connect, and where you go.

I've travelled with a firearm in my luggage quit a bit, and to date have never had a problem. That's not to say I couldn't. I also appreciate the potential like Revell, who had numerous judgements against him in lower courts, after his arrest, when he appealed his situation. He was the good guy, but did take his firearm off the airport property and bring it back. It can happen.

We flew from Kansas city to Orlando with my glock 32 in a small pelican case in my bag. I never was asked by the TSA to open it.

The girl at the Delta counter in kc wanted to see the gun to make sure it was unloaded. I showed her it was disassembled and she was fine with it. My bag was waiting for me at the baggage claim office in Orlando. Showed them my id and left.

I believe we flew home on American. Kinda got into it with the woman at the AA counter in Orlando. She wanted us to use the self check in thing. She dropped the attitude after I told her I had a firearm to declare. Got home to kc and the idiots sent my bag down the belt instead of taking it to the baggage claim office.

I was expecting a huge hassle flying with a gun. It was uneventful for the most part.

Most places will put your bag on the carrol instead of taking it to the baggage office. Because your bag isn't marked as having a firearm inside, there's generally no way to know that it contains a firearm. The whole point of not marking it is to ensure it gets handled like any other. It's for your protection and the security of the firearm.

Bags usually only end up in the office if they haven't been picked up off the carrol.

It sounds like everyone involved finally got in to the same chapter of the rule book, way back ,when I flew with a gun, they were not in the same book.
The t.s.a. rules were different from airport to airport, as we're the individual air line rules , it was half of a p.i.t.a.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Most places will put your bag on the carrol instead of taking it to the baggage office. Because your bag isn't marked as having a firearm inside, there's generally no way to know that it contains a firearm. The whole point of not marking it is to ensure it gets handled like any other. It's for your protection and the security of the firearm.

Bags usually only end up in the office if they haven't been picked up off the carrol.

When you check the bag the clerk is supposed to put a sticker on it so that you pick it up at the lost luggage counter.... I hate to bust your bubble but anyone with access to the airlines computer and probably others can see that your checked luggage has a gun in it...

I inherited my uncle's collection when he passed and flew out of Phoenix Sky Harbor with his M1 Garand, appropriately cased. I had a great experience with the TSA agent, who was prior service and filled me in with all sorts of M1 tips and lore.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:

When you check the bag the clerk is supposed to put a sticker on it so that you pick it up at the lost luggage counter.... I hate to bust your bubble but anyone with access to the airlines computer and probably others can see that your checked luggage has a gun in it...

I hate to bust your bubble, but I do this for a living.

Marking the luggage from the outside is prohibited. The luggage is not to be marked to identify it as carrying a firearm, and the bag tag does not identify it as such.

The point of not marking luggage with a tag that identifies it as carrying a firearm (firearm declaration), is to aid in preventing theft of the firearm, as well as to discourage someone who shouldn't have access to the firearm (terrorist) from obtaining the firearm once it's entered a secure area.

The firearm declaration is to be attached to the firearm container (which is INSIDE your luggage).

If luggage were marked as carrying a firearm, it would be simple enough for someone to obtain the firearm by waiting for it to clear security, then gain access on the other side.

Luggage coding does not contain that information, and does not contain a listing of luggage contents. Luggage coding is about destination.

This information is dated, and not entirely correct, but is mostly accurate for the time it was given, and gives a comparitive rundown on different airline policies (at the time of writing).

https://deviating.net/firearms/packing/report.html

Elsewhere I have provided a link to the TSA site addressing carriage of firearms in checked luggage. The actual regulation is found in 49 CFR 1544.203:

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/t...9.1544_1203&rgn=div8

quote:

(f) Firearms in checked baggage. No aircraft operator may knowingly permit any person to transport in checked baggage:

(1) Any loaded firearm(s).

(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing before checking the baggage that any firearm carried in the baggage is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container;

(iii) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the individual checking the baggage retains the key or combination; and

(iv) The checked baggage containing the firearm is carried in an area that is inaccessible to passengers, and is not carried in the flightcrew compartment,.

(3) Any unauthorized explosive or incendiary.

(g) Ammunition. This section does not prohibit the carriage of ammunition in checked baggage or in the same container as a firearm. Title 49 CFR part 175 provides additional requirements governing carriage of ammunition on aircraft.

I have seen various posts in the past about consent to search the luggage, and some assume that because one must retain the key or combination, that the luggage cannot be searched; this is untrue; the airline is required by regulation to refuse to transport any luggage if the property owner does not consent to search. There is no leeway or flexibility in this.

49 CFR 1544:203(e):

quote:

(e) Refusal to transport. Each aircraft operator must refuse to transport any individual's checked baggage or property if the individual does not consent to a search or inspection of that checked baggage or property in accordance with the system prescribed by this part.

This typically means that having checked your luggage, you may be asked to take the luggage to a specific point for TSA to view the firearm or ensure that it's unloaded (airlines will ask, but have the authority and the right to verify, as does TSA). You may be asked to wait while the luggage is checked, to provide the key or combination. If you refuse, the luggage will be refused carriage. If you're gone and unable to provide the key/combination and you've provided consent (checking your luggage, and purchasing a ticket is consent), then the luggage may be opened anyway, because you, your bags, and property are all subject to search at any time before, during, or after transport, so long as there is any intent to be in a secure area (which checking the bag is). See 49 CFR 1544.201(c).

Once checked, the luggage should not be marked as containing a firearm. Often a sticker or tag will be attached to the firearm inside the bag, but not on the outside of the bag, for security reasons.

Additional applicable regulation is 49 CFR 1540:111(c):

quote:

(c) In checked baggage. A passenger may not transport or offer for transport in checked baggage or in baggage carried in an inaccessible cargo hold under §1562.23 of this chapter:

(1) Any loaded firearm(s).

(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is unloaded;

(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.

(3) Any unauthorized explosive or incendiary.

(d) Ammunition. This section does not prohibit the carriage of ammunition in checked baggage or in the same container as a firearm. Title 49 CFR part 175 provides additional requirements governing carriage of ammunition on aircraft.

If you transport a firearm in your checked luggage, and the luggage has been marked externally as containing a firearm, this has been done incorrectly and should not have happened.

Yes things really have changed, thanks guppy

quote:

Originally posted by Riley:
Thanks all! Due to the size of the handguns and associated magazines etc., I figured it best to use a separate Pelican. I need at least a 1450 size which takes a fairly large suitcase to fit it inside of.

Magazines and ammo don't have to be locked up with the firearm. I usually leave mine in the range bag that is also packed in the suitcase.

That allows you to put the guns in a smaller, locking case. When travelling with a P320, that means that only the FCU has to go in the case. I have a steel handgun case that's the size of a paperback book with a cable on it. I put the FCU and the slide (just because there is extra room) in it and lock the cable to the suitcase frame. Everything else can be separate.

Bruce

Bruce, have you ever encountered any problems with TSA or airlines questioning other parts outside the hard case, such as slide or grip module, which look like a firearm? I've never tried removing a FCU or components like that. I'm curious what the reaction might be from those who wouldn't understand that the FCU is the legal firearm.

Is the pistol case too small to simply leave it as an assembled firearm?

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Most places will put your bag on the carrol instead of taking it to the baggage office. Because your bag isn't marked as having a firearm inside, there's generally no way to know that it contains a firearm. The whole point of not marking it is to ensure it gets handled like any other. It's for your protection and the security of the firearm.

Bags usually only end up in the office if they haven't been picked up off the carrol.

Depends on the airline. I think it was AAL that put a big red tag on the suitcase saying it had to go to the baggage office (not that it had a gun) without saying anything to me about it. When the carousel stopped I was on my way to the baggage office (a little concerned) when they paged me to the baggage office. The nice lady there explained that, “They always do that for security.” Next trip the wife and I split up. She went to the baggage office I went to the carousel with the agreement that whoever saw the bag first would call. I saw it first, coming down the ramp to the carousel, big red tag and all.

Every airline has their own policies. The policies are adhered to/enforced by people. People are always interesting and rarely consistent across a group.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Bruce, have you ever encountered any problems with TSA or airlines questioning other parts outside the hard case, such as slide or grip module, which look like a firearm? I've never tried removing a FCU or components like that. I'm curious what the reaction might be from those who wouldn't understand that the FCU is the legal firearm.

Is the pistol case too small to simply leave it as an assembled firearm?

Not Bruce, but found that two P320 slide assemblies and two FCUs fit nicely in the simple nano cases.

The problem isn’t taking one pistol, it’s taking two. When my son and I flew to Applied Fundamentals [GREAT class btw], I was running a P226 and he was running a P320. I've long believed in taking a spare when you go to a class. Too much time, travel, and money to risk being SOL if a gun goes down. Taking a small pelican that would handle two P226s, mags loaded with defensive ammo, and pocket knives and the nano with all but the grip modules of the two P320s, and packing the grip modules loose in the clothes around the boxes was easier that fitting a four gun box in the suitcase.

Thanks to Bruce for sharing this tip when we ran into each other at PAH arriving for an earlier class.

I’ve been told (and assume it is 100% correct) that while grip modules or other gun parts that are not guns (not the serialized part) can be loose in checked bags, NO gun parts may be carried in carryon bags.

You cannot carry anything on, even empty brass. Years ago, my BIL had a spent 30-06 case from a military honor guard in his pocket. It was from a 21 gun salute at a funeral. Nope, they took it. This was pre 9/11. I’m sure it’s worse now.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

I’ve been told (and assume it is 100% correct) that while grip modules or other gun parts that are not guns (not the serialized part) can be loose in checked bags, NO gun parts may be carried in carryon bags.

That is correct, and includes toy firearms.

I have flown out of, and to, Chicago Ohare numerous times with cases filled with multiple handguns, tactical shotguns and large amounts of ammo and large capacity magazines, Never any issues.