quote:

Fuel cost needs to be considered.

"Your 24KW generator" $5-10 per day??!!

That's actually what it cost a few years ago. Caught me using old natural gas pricing, which has more than doubled locally in the last 2 years alone. That's the main reason I changed out my gas furnace for a heat pump...

My generator used 2000 cubic feet per day over 2.5 days of runtime a few years ago(2018), that was the actual usage I was billed for. At my current rate, which is higher than the national average, that pencils out to ~$40/day(2 years ago that price would have been ~$20/day). Which is still not hundreds of dollars per day.

Looking at the specs for my generator, it only lists natural gas consumption for full load, and half load. Reality is, those are both peak numbers demanded for starting heavier loads like a heat pump or a constant high load like an electric oven, and it generally idles at a fuel consumption rate much lower than half while providing perhaps 500 watts. It's still running at the same speed, but it doesn't require as much fuel due to the load. They list the full and half load consumption rates so the installers size the supply lines adequately, but those flow rates are rarely reached or sustained. Even at a constant half load, mine would consume 4800 cubic feet per day, which is ~$100. That simply doesn't happen, but you need the excess to start heavier loads.

Argh!

Looks like another delay and the generator won't arrive on schedule. They are now saying less than 30 days.

The installers are at my house to install everything but the actual generator.

According to the dealer there are plenty of air cooled units in stock at dealers everywhere while the liquid cooled are not.

But I will wait.

Well, I did get to see the unit on the trailer today in front of my house. It's definitely the 27kw QS. It has a Mitsubishi engine.

The forklift was tipping trying to lift it off so they are scheduling a crane to lift it over my house into place sometime late next week.

They tell me it weighs 940lbs and the forklift was rated at 911lbs, so no dice.

It's OK though, less wear and tear on my lawn.

Congrats, lbj.
It's no fun when the power is out. We went 3 weeks without power back in 1984. I never want to go through that again. In 2021, I purchased a Honda EM5000sx and EU2200i. The larger model will run our well if needed. I was looking for something to get us by in case of an extended outage.

quote:

Originally posted by lbj:
Well, I did get to see the unit on the trailer today in front of my house. It's definitely the 27kw QS. It has a Mitsubishi engine.

The forklift was tipping trying to lift it off so they are scheduling a crane to lift it over my house into place sometime late next week.

They tell me it weighs 940lbs and the forklift was rated at 911lbs, so no dice.

It's OK though, less wear and tear on my lawn.

Something doesn't seem right. 940lbs should be nothing for a forklift unless it is a Tonka Toy. A pallet of sod weights about 2000lbs and those little three wheel forklifts carried on the back of semi's handle that easily. And a crane for 940lbs to go over a house, unless your house is on the side of a cliff or something.

quote:

Originally posted by lbj:
The forklift was tipping trying to lift it off so they are scheduling a crane to lift it over my house into place sometime late next week.

They tell me it weighs 940lbs and the forklift was rated at 911lbs, so no dice.

It's OK though, less wear and tear on my lawn.

When our 20kW Onan arrived in 2003, its weight was above the capacity of my tractor's front end pallet fork frame, but I could lift one end. Since forks can lift 750 lbs, I am guessing its weight was near yours. After they used the lift gate to set it down close, I used a few pieces of 4" PVC pipe to roll it into position, lifting up one end to reposition the pipe as needed. Once I got it end on to the slab, I lifted it up onto a piece of pipe on the slab, rolled, then added another. Finally, I had to lift one end on the slab so it could drop over the stubbed in conduit sticking up in the slab. No "yard" to worry about here in the desert.

Yeah, it was a dinky tractor forklift and they were going to run it over plywood across the lawn.
The tractor forklift was tilting.

Plus it snowed the night before and the lawn is gushy. Is that even a word? Spell check liked it.

They have another job late next week that required a boom lift crane thing so they are going to see if they can bring it here the same day.

I am sure the neighbors will notice.

I watched one last summer down the street lifting in a hot tub.

Gushy is a word, yes.

Using the word gushy gives away our age I think.

I’m assuming that the pronunciation uses a long u. I can see where attempting to move something heavy over the lawn in the condition you describe could be icky. Which also demonstrates one’s age. Chronologically and emotionally.

I'm late to the party, but I don't see it mentioned elsewhere... Would I be correct in assuming that you've already checked your NatGas supply to ensure you have sufficient pressure/volume to operate this unit concurrently with the other gas appliances present?

Saw a lot of this locally in the aftermath of Sandy 10 years ago. People added whole house gensets, only to learn that their supply line was sized to handle the usual devices (furnace, water heater, stove, dryer) and unfortunately the addition of the generator tipped the scales. IIRC, the usual fix was to replace (upsize) the feed from the main, which can be an expensive operation.

quote:

Originally posted by motor59:
I'm late to the party, but I don't see it mentioned elsewhere... Would I be correct in assuming that you've already checked your NatGas supply to ensure you have sufficient pressure/volume to operate this unit concurrently with the other gas appliances present?

Saw a lot of this locally in the aftermath of Sandy 10 years ago. People added whole house gensets, only to learn that their supply line was sized to handle the usual devices (furnace, water heater, stove, dryer) and unfortunately the addition of the generator tipped the scales. IIRC, the usual fix was to replace (upsize) the feed from the main, which can be an expensive operation.

If you have an installer worth their salt, they will change out the upstream regulator for a higher flow and pressure unit (~12in WC). Typically 1"+ header with 3/4" downstream distribution. Then place the original regulator in line to feed the lower pressure appliances, like your stove or furnace, as they were originally...

My installer tee'd 3/4" Gastite CSST (Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing) flex piping (wasn't a long run) from the new regulator to the generator. During the commissioning/startup test, you run the generator concurrently with other appliances to verify proper operation. Not all vendors do that part.

Around here, the gas company is who does this portion of the install, no one else will or wants to mess with that piece of the equation. Local plumbers around here always defer to the gas company for these things. I'm not even sure if anyone besides the gas company is allowed to make or alter connections on those lines. If the installer knows what they're doing it really shouldn't be an issue.

Yeah, get off my lawn!

The installer (Collins Control) will notify Excel Energy of the need for a larger gas meter when the install is complete.

I'm told it takes them a couple of months once notified to come and make the changes necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by lbj:
Yeah, get off my lawn!

The installer (Collins Control) will notify Excel Energy of the need for a larger gas meter when the install is complete.

I'm told it takes them a couple of months once notified to come and make the changes necessary.

That's lazy and/or just dumb - they know the gas consumption & had 9 months to get the correct equipment in place. I would ask if they hold the invoice until the job is done.

I called the gas company, told them what I had (furnace & 2 stoves), what I was installing (combi-boiler for shop heat/DHW) and that I wanted to switch my water heater to a gas on-demand 'when current electric dies'. I called them a month before the boiler was supposed to be installed & let them know that. The next week I had a new meter. I asked the installer what would happen if I had too much draw for that meter - 'You don't, but we can bump the pressure up.'
No fuss, no charge. I did test with everything running full blast & it worked.

I hadn't thought of that, ie the advance meter request.

I'll ask them this week why they didn't ask in advance.

quote:

Originally posted by Nuclear:
You need to size a generator by the inrush (startup) amperage of the largest electric motor you plan to run plus the normal load of what you want to run in the house. Inrush is typically 10x the running load of the motor. When I lived in FL, I had a 17.5kw generator so I could start a zone AC unit while the other was running along with other loads in the house.

See a lot of folks going with Micro Air Easy Starts on their RVs and now also home AC setups.


https://www.microair.net/produ...5-and-230v-ac-motors

quote:

Originally posted by lbj:
The installer (Collins Control) will notify Excel Energy of the need for a larger gas meter when the install is complete.

I'm told it takes them a couple of months

In case you hadn't already considered this, I might suggest directly calling the energy company, mentioning your wife's medical condition, and requesting special consideration. Couldn't hurt, and might get you a bump up on the waiting list.

Great advice.

It's possible Excel doesn't do upgrades on the meters until the generators are actually in place.
I will find out.

The unit is installed and running.
I turned on everything natural gas related in the entire house and the generator still runs so that's good.

The installers are getting ready to brief me on everything and, of course, pay the bill.

I came in here expecting there would be pics...