quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
What are the issues with running the Diesel engine at low capacity for extended periods at low capacity? I see Diesel trucks idling for hours on end at truck stops or on the side of the road all the time. I'm thinking about a Diesel Generator for my next home and thought Diesel would be ideal for a number of reasons, so serious question.

A Diesel engine will “wet stack” if it runs at idle for long periods. This is where it doesn’t completely combust its fuel, and it forms a gooey buildup in the exhaust. It can also form carbon in the cylinder that can cause damage.

My Dad bought a used semi truck, a 1996 Freightliner with a Cat 3406E. A piece of carbon broke loose in a cylinder and ruined a cylinder liner. The shop said it had 60% idle hours. More modern trucks, OTOH, are built for extended idle. They use the variable geometry turbo, or the exhaust retarder (Volvos), to restrict the exhaust flow, thus retaining heat and minimizing wet stacking.

The concern with my generator was that, being naturally aspirated, it wouldn’t sufficiently retain heat at low load, and thus be subject to wet stacking. Perhaps this concern is unwarranted since the generator always runs at 1800rpm, regardless of load. Nevertheless, I try to provide my genny with the opportunity to come up to 50% at least once an hour. When I exercise it, I use a 10kw torpedo heater to generate a static load.

Don’t be put off from diesel. It has many advantages, notably that they are very heavy duty, and that you have your fuel source on site. My problem with NG is that you are still relying on the grid to supply your power, albeit gas instead of electricity. In Texas in 2021, a NG generator would have done you no good since the gas went down along with the electricity. Diesel is a great option if you want to be completely independent from anything during an emergency. It also stores well. I have diesel that is twenty years old, and it looks great, using proper storage (water absorber and biocide). I keep about 200 gallons at my house, and that’s enough for a few months of generator use, if I’m judicious with it’s use and don’t run it 24/7.

quote:

Originally posted by MRMATT:
BTW, do I really need an oil and battery warmer for my location, SE PA?

How cold do you think it will be when the power goes out?

With a good battery, I don’t think it will make a difference. It will make a difference with a marginal battery in cold weather. If this is your main home, you stay up on checking the battery, and replace it before it gets marginal, you probably don’t need the heaters.

We bought them, because the generators are installed at our summer homes, we aren’t there in the winter, it gets cold up there, and we won’t know if the batteries start to go bad while we are not there. Plus, the heaters were about 2% of the total installed cost.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
What are the issues with running the Diesel engine at low capacity for extended periods at low capacity? I see Diesel trucks idling for hours on end at truck stops or on the side of the road all the time. I'm thinking about a Diesel Generator for my next home and thought Diesel would be ideal for a number of reasons, so serious question.

A Diesel engine will “wet stack” if it runs at idle for long periods. This is where it doesn’t completely combust its fuel, and it forms a gooey buildup in the exhaust. It can also form carbon in the cylinder that can cause damage.

[SNIP]

Don’t be put off from diesel. It has many advantages, notably that they are very heavy duty, and that you have your fuel source on site. My problem with NG is that you are still relying on the grid to supply your power, albeit gas instead of electricity. In Texas in 2021, a NG generator would have done you no good since the gas went down along with the electricity. Diesel is a great option if you want to be completely independent from anything during an emergency. It also stores well. I have diesel that is twenty years old, and it looks great, using proper storage (water absorber and biocide). I keep about 200 gallons at my house, and that’s enough for a few months of generator use, if I’m judicious with it’s use and don’t run it 24/7.

Thanks for the quick (and detailed) reply...Good info!

When I'm able to get the dream house, this is my dream Generator --> https://www.auroragenerators.com/product-page/agi20p

^^^ Looks like a great unit. I’d look at a larger fuel tank, if available. I have a 70 gallon tank on my generator.

quote:

Originally posted by lbj:
I ordered a new home generator back last February and it has finally been shipped.
Install late next week.
Guess I don't need one until I do but I will feel better knowing it's there.

My wife has some medical equipment that must run and though my Ecoflow Delta Pro battery pack is really nice, it can't come close to doing the whole house.

My guess is some members here have similar items, how well do they work?

https://www.generac.com/all-pr...series/27kw-rg027-qs

Dont know about the Generac,I have a 2001 year Kohler 45 KW generator propane fueled 6 cyl inline Ford 300 engine.Overkill,I know runs the hell out of my all electric home.The genset fires up within 3 seconds of an outage.Called a fast response 2 by Kohler dont make this model any more.Long post on my part,bottom line,You will wonder how You ever got along without without it.Good Luck.

Dang! You can run the whole neighborhood off of that thing. I run pretty much my whole house off of my little Honda 2K. If I need to run the well pump I'll fire up the 9Ker.

I'm actually considering getting rid of the 9Ker and buying another Honda 2K to put in series. That'll be all I need and on eco-mode they run forever...quietly.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Dang! You can run the whole neighborhood off of that thing. I run pretty much my whole house off of my little Honda 2K. If I need to run the well pump I'll fire up the 9Ker.

I'm actually considering getting rid of the 9Ker and buying another Honda 2K to put in series. That'll be all I need and on eco-mode they run forever...quietly.

Honda makes a fine generator.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
In Texas in 2021, a NG generator would have done you no good since the gas went down along with the electricity.

Nonsense. My generator ran 4 days straight on NG during that storm.

You're repeating poor reporting by the media. Texas natural gas production exceeded demand every day of the storm. It was a power generation and regulator (ie. shutting down power stations) problem. The graph below is from the Texas Oil & Gas Assoc. report on Uri:

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
In Texas in 2021, a NG generator would have done you no good since the gas went down along with the electricity.

Nonsense. My generator ran 4 days straight on NG during that storm.

You're repeating poor reporting by the media. Texas natural gas production exceeded demand every day of the storm. It was a power generation and regulator (ie. shutting down power stations) problem. The graph below is from the Texas Oil & Gas Assoc…

Perhaps. There’s a lot of press that quotes people like Dan Woodfin, senior director of operations at EPCOT. Perhaps there was always enough supply, but distribution was affected in areas. I’m glad your area maintained its supply. Nonetheless, my point remains, that you are still dependent on a utility supplier of some sort or another.

Don’t modern generators switch between that gas and propane fuels easily now? You could always have bottles as back up?

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
In Texas in 2021, a NG generator would have done you no good since the gas went down along with the electricity.

Nonsense. My generator ran 4 days straight on NG during that storm.

You're repeating poor reporting by the media. Texas natural gas production exceeded demand every day of the storm. It was a power generation and regulator (ie. shutting down power stations) problem. The graph below is from the Texas Oil & Gas Assoc…

Perhaps. There’s a lot of press that quotes people like Dan Woodfin, senior director of operations at EPCOT. Perhaps there was always enough supply, but distribution was affected in areas. I’m glad your area maintained its supply. Nonetheless, my point remains, that you are still dependent on a utility supplier of some sort or another.

Dan Woodfin should've been unemployed 2/17/21 as he's one of the ERCOT asshats that mismanaged the grid. Anything he says is likely CYA. In other words, find better sources of information.

However, I do concur with your point on natural gas grid dependence.

We were without electricity for almost 5 full days that Winter but never without gas.

We were cooking for family and friends that had all electric.

quote:

Originally posted by lbj:
My guess is some members here have similar items, how well do they work?

I put in a Generac 18Kw propane unit in 2008, had to upgrade to a 22Kw unit last year when I changed one floor's HVAC to heat pump, which put me over the 18KW peak. We've been pleased - solid product, good warranty.

The important things are to get a good quality installation and keep up with the scheduled maintenance. We have the installation company out once a year to inspect and do the preventative maintenance. Money well spent - they found a battery issue and got it replaced under warranty before it'd caused any problems.

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:
I have a 24KW Guardian Series, which is actually de-rated to 22KW for natural gas vs propane.

Small house, perhaps 1400 sq ft with a 3 ton heat pump and typical appliances. As has been noted, it's the starting current that necessitates the additional sizing. By all means try powering your entire house with a 2.5KW (or even 5KW) generator, I'll be over here with all my appliances and AC running, guarantee you wont...

quote:

That big unit is going to cost hundreds of dollars per day to run and better be natural gas as a propane tank to run it would be massive.

I want some of what you're smokin...
Even if mine ran at 100% load for 24 hours, which it wont, it pencils out to ~$10/day. Realistically, it probably would use <$5/day.

I was owned a small engine repair shop for a number of years. I am well aware of fuel consumption used on generators. Natural gas is not available in my area. We have propane and gasoline. Both are expensive.

A quick google search of a gasoline generator 27,000 watts surge/18,000 watts rated shows a 17 gallon tank and a half-load run time of 8 hours. That's 51 gallons of gasoline per 24 hours at half-load. At $3.40 per gallon, that's $173 of fuel used per day.

There is no freaking way that your 24K watt unit only uses $5 to $10 worth of fuel, per day. Unless they give you fuel for practically free.

Ok, now lets use propane. Generac shows a 27K watt unit using 2.14 gallons of propane per hour. That's 51.3 gallons per day. Average fuel price for propane right now is showing $2.34 per gallon. That's $120 per day if you run propane.

27KW gasoline generator - $173 per day
27KW propane Generac - $120 per day


My initial comment about fuel cost should NOT be under estimated. People over buy and buy too much generator and then get shocked when the fuel bill comes in for a longish 10-14 day hurricane inspired power outage. In Florida, where I live, people run out of propane on day 5. And cant get any propane as the entire state sells out and cant get any for 3 weeks. And then it cost $1000 to re-fill the tank....

Fuel cost needs to be considered.

"Your 24KW generator" $5-10 per day??!!

Your half-load for 24 hours assumption is off so are your fuel price assumptions.

Let’s take you half-load number though. One of my 22kW generators on natural gas would use 200 cubic feet of gas per hour. PIE&G charges (and I rounded up) $.91 per 100 cubic feet of gas, so at half load that’s $1.82 or $43.68 a day.

The generator is going to run 24 a day at half load. At 25% load, it uses 140 cubic feet an hour, so $30.58 a day. Even then it probably won’t even use that.

quote:

Originally posted by kg5388:
Thank goodness you went with liquid cooled. Last year after hurricane Ida there were air cooled generators of all brands dropping like flies. The issues were running 24 hours a day at 1800 or 3600 rpm in 99 degree temps. None of the owners ever shut them down to check and add oil. Make sure you have extra oil and filters on hand and during an outage check the oil every other day and change it every 250 hours or 2 weeks of continuous run.

Good advice on the oil. I have minimal experience with large water cooled generators, but for air cooled, the rule of thumb that will keep you safe, is change the oil every 50 hours if it lacks an oil filter, or every 100 hours if it has an oil filter.

So for air cooled, you need to be changing the oil every 2-4 days, depending on if your unit has an oil filter or not.

You really don't want to extend it past 50/100 hours on air cooled 3600 RPM units as they beat the oil to snot, and yes, people do blow up their engines.

I lived through the 2004 hurricane season in Florida with 4 back to back hurricanes and I remember us being without power for months straight. MY generator was the only one that did not blow up. EVERY one of my neighbors, the entire street, had blown up generators out front with the trash. I changed my oil every 2 days.

As for correct oil, you'll get a lot of opinions. Not all oils are suitable for continuous generator use. For my climate, I personally suggest an oil that is rated ACEA A3/B5 on the back of the container. These oils are far more robust and thicker at high temps than average synthetic motor oils that you buy.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Your half-load for 24 hours assumption is off.

Are you stating that a generator wont be at half load over an average of 24 hours? I would tend to agree.

Yes. I added more to my post including local natural gas prices. Good point on the oil changes. It’s a 200 hour change on ours, so every 8 days without power.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
It's settled, then- if the power goes out, we meet at lbj's house.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
^^^ Looks like a great unit. I’d look at a larger fuel tank, if available. I have a 70 gallon tank on my generator.

The ones at work burn 20-30 gallons per hour depending on load. They are 2,000kW though.