quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:
It's relatively easy to imagine a completely plausible scenario where it could be justified...

You'll have to enlighten me.

Maybe she was wearing black pajamas and carrying a ninjato sword. Jes' sayin'...

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Shugart:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:
It's relatively easy to imagine a completely plausible scenario where it could be justified...

You'll have to enlighten me.

Maybe she was wearing black pajamas and carrying a ninjato sword. Jes' sayin'...

With it coming out that she was anti-gun, this makes a lot of sense.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:
It's relatively easy to imagine a completely plausible scenario where it could be justified...

You'll have to enlighten me.

Folding pocket knife concealed in a hand suddenly unconcealed while talking at the window and thrust at the driver. Totally justified to shoot that person.

Lady talking at window grabs something from the drivers belt. Easily justifiable given some parameters.

Heck, even a ball point pen jabbed in my partners neck could elicit a justifiable deadly force response from me.

Maybe it's easier for me to think situations where it could be justifiable as a LE firearms and less lethal options trainer. I dunno.

I'm just saying it's easy to think of a scenario where it could happen. I'm not saying it did. I'm passing zero judgement about the justifiableness one way or the other, just trying to get some of you all the widen your vision a little.

That is a possible scenario, but exceedingly unlikely in this case.

Sure is. But still possible, right? Want a plausible but even less likely scenario? Maybe she went all Walking Dead and starting tearing at the driving officers neck with her teeth. I think we are all reasonably sure it didn't go down that way, but it certainly could.

Exceedingly unlikely events happen every day. Last week I kicked 3 deputies off the range for being unsafe. In the previous 5 years I've done 1. Suddenly 3 in one week? That's exceedingly unlikely.

Speculation is a two way street.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

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Originally posted by ulsterman:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Unbelievable.

This couldn't possibly be a justified shooting in any way that I could imagine. And yes, I realize I'm saying that with not many facts.

Your legs tired?

Is that a pick up line? Have I been running through your mind all day?

You give your self too much credit.

I just figured your legs were tired from jumping to conclusions.

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Originally posted by thumperfbc:

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Originally posted by MNSIG:

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Originally posted by thumperfbc:
It's relatively easy to imagine a completely plausible scenario where it could be justified... just as easy to imagine s scenario where it is not. Those are both facts.

Well, I may have a limited imagination, but I find it at least a BIT easier to come up with unjustified scenarios.

Sure it's easier... practically all of life would be a scenario where shooting her isn't a correctvand proper response.

See my post above for quick examples of the opposite. Once you have read that you'all likely go "oh, ok. I see how it might happen" and maybe even come up with a possibility yourself.

If you don't train officers to defend themselves I can totally see how your mind might not jump to non-obvious answers.

The possibility that occurred to me was that the driver mistook the cell phone for something else (heck, maybe she even made a sudden move), hollered "Gun!", and the partner who already had his gun out went to town. Likely? No. Possible? Yes.

I don't feel there is enough information to pass any kind of judgement. I fear that by the time any information is released, whatever is released may be a) way too late, b) way too full of spin & political CYA BS, and c) way too void of real, direct, clear information to do any good.

Going back to the comments on demographics, I don't personally feel that demographics SHOULD *ever* be a factor. I personally think that we should all be judged on and held accountable for our actions regardless of our race, religion, creed, sexual orientation, or any other flavor of the week way to slice, dice, and divide people. I think it should be really simple: Behave well, get treated well and respectfully. Behave poorly, get respectfully held to account for that bad behavior. As far as whether demographics WILL be an issue here, I'd be shocked if the powers that be, both political and in the media don't do their level best to bury or downplay the demographics. I don't necessarily disagree with that, but it should be the standard approach in *ALL* cases, not just what is used when the demographics involved don't fit the desired narrative.

$0.02 until there is (if there ever is) some real information published...

quote:

The possibility that occurred to me was that the driver mistook the cell phone for something else (heck, maybe she even made a sudden move), hollered "Gun!", and the partner who already had his gun out went to town. Likely? No. Possible? Yes.

Okay, this is plausible. A complete CF, but possible.

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:
It's relatively easy to imagine a completely plausible scenario where it could be justified...

You'll have to enlighten me.

Folding pocket knife concealed in a hand suddenly unconcealed while talking at the window and thrust at the driver. Totally justified to shoot that person.

Lady talking at window grabs something from the drivers belt. Easily justifiable given some parameters.

Heck, even a ball point pen jabbed in my partners neck could elicit a justifiable deadly force response from me.

Maybe it's easier for me to think situations where it could be justifiable as a LE firearms and less lethal options trainer. I dunno.

I'm just saying it's easy to think of a scenario where it could happen. I'm not saying it did. I'm passing zero judgement about the justifiableness one way or the other, just trying to get some of you all the widen your vision a little.

I could think of all those type scenarios as well; in fact I did.

The thing is, they all are just so utterly ridiculous.

Just got done watching the WCCO Channel 4 News out of Minneapolis, where this story was the lead.

Just speculation, spin, and grieving loved ones. No new real facts.

H&K-Guy

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:
It's relatively easy to imagine a completely plausible scenario where it could be justified...

You'll have to enlighten me.

Folding pocket knife concealed in a hand suddenly unconcealed while talking at the window and thrust at the driver. Totally justified to shoot that person.

Lady talking at window grabs something from the drivers belt. Easily justifiable given some parameters.

Heck, even a ball point pen jabbed in my partners neck could elicit a justifiable deadly force response from me.

Maybe it's easier for me to think situations where it could be justifiable as a LE firearms and less lethal options trainer. I dunno.

I'm just saying it's easy to think of a scenario where it could happen. I'm not saying it did. I'm passing zero judgement about the justifiableness one way or the other, just trying to get some of you all the widen your vision a little.

I could think of all those type scenarios as well; in fact I did.

The thing is, they all are just so utterly ridiculous.

Some moreso than others. Unfortunately real life is not regulated by such things. Any officer, firefighter, or emt could relay all manner of truly rediculous things they've witnessed.

I think I'd be concerned about a partner that has a unholstered firearm pointed at me in the drivers seat cocked and finger on the trigger regardless of threat.

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:

Some moreso than others. Unfortunately real life is not regulated by such things. Any officer, firefighter, or emt could relay all manner of truly rediculous things they've witnessed.

Given the very limited facts available, I agree that nearly anything is possible at this point. Heck, maybe she was a Russian spy...

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:...I'm just saying it's easy to think of a scenario where it could happen. I'm not saying it did. I'm passing zero judgement about the justifiableness one way or the other, just trying to get some of you all the widen your vision a little.

Many possible scenarios, how many are realistic??

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Originally posted by Sig209:...The delay is all about 'getting our spin on the story straight' IMO.

Seems to me if they had a fairly solid story, it would be out by now. At this point, maybe if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, it's probably a duck.

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:...Given the very limited facts available, I agree that nearly anything is possible at this point. Heck, maybe she was a Russian spy...

On her way to a secret meeting with Trump.

All in all, I don't trust the integrity of the bureaucrats nor the media on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
If the victim was a women in pajamas who called cops to report a suspected assault, I'm probably leaning toward unjustified as default.

Although I'm not sure why she's outside in pajamas if she's suspecting there is an assault occurring nearby....

I see nothing out of the ordinary here.

She called the cops, they showed up, she went out to let them know why she called and give them the latest information about what was going on. its what law abiding citizens do.

As for the pajamas, the last flight I took from Newark to Jacksonville had 2 females on the flight wearing pajamas so going out to the curb in them doesn't raise any flags for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:
Originally posted by Sig209:...The delay is all about 'getting our spin on the story straight' IMO.

quote:

Seems to me if they had a fairly solid story, it would be out by now. At this point, maybe if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Who knows with the incompetence we see today. Look at Ferguson, it was a completely good shoot and the department refused to say anything for almost a week while wildly inaccurate stories were being put out by the media and riots were starting. There was ZERO reason for them not to issue a statement and it could have averted that whole fiasco.

Could her cellphone have had a loud custom ringtone that sounds like a gun shooting? A call coming in at just the wrong moment....

This smells to high heaven. It really is similar to the Philando Castile case. Shoot first, ask questions later.

Data insufficient. Data please

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Data insufficient. Data please

This for sure.

Some wild speculation and stupid ass jokes going on here.

Remember guys, someone died here who in all likelihood should not have.