Will keep this in mind.
We currently have a 1.5kw/4 panel system that was on the house when we bought it. Guessing it's ~6-8yrs old; depending on if it was installed on new construction or added later.

My quote from your link is roughly the same for an 8.16kw Tesla system.

Maybe once things turn around & we get our pay cuts back, it's something we'll look into.

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:
My son had new roofing put on before the panels. Apparently it's a real bitch to put new shingles on AFTER the panels are installed. Made sense to me.

I figured that the costs to remove and replace the panels for a new roof would just be another incremental cost to the new roof. I heard around $2-3k.

My wife and I don't plan on living in this house forever. So, the sooner we get the system on, the sooner we can enjoy and maximize the benefits. Like, I'm kinda looking forward to running the AC 24/7, since we'd never do that now. I oversized the system by about 20% so I'd have room to run the AC more than we normally would, or to add an electric car.

I’ve been thinking about this as basically a “back up generator” with the powerwalls for hurricane season for me

I don’t have gas piped to the house so service would have to be brought in

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
I figured that the costs to remove and replace the panels for a new roof would just be another incremental cost to the new roof. I heard around $2-3k.

My wife and I don't plan on living in this house forever. So, the sooner we get the system on, the sooner we can enjoy and maximize the benefits. Like, I'm kinda looking forward to running the AC 24/7, since we'd never do that now. I oversized the system by about 20% so I'd have room to run the AC more than we normally would, or to add an electric car.

I'd imagine it's got property value increase with it in SoCal, gotta be green!

We run the AC 24/7 with the solar system.

Our bill is usually about $10

Plus we somehow get a credit on our second house we go to on weekends a couple times a month. I’m not sure exactly how that works because my Cousin who I own my house with set it all up.

He also has a Chevy Volt he charges every night.

Initially I thought you bought an electric car. Well ok, I would not buy one but.

I would never buy solar electric when grid power is available. Might as well just take a big wad of cash and burn it.

Now if I purposely lived outside the grid then I would do some kind of minimal solar system. But the place would certainly not have AC or any 220v appliances.

This unless solar makes huge advances.


The whole tax credit deals are just another tax payer scam type deal for this kind of stuff imho.

Not sure I follow, ORC.

But part of me posting is to let others know that solar has indeed made huge advances. Tesla undercutting it's competitors on price by 30-40% pretty much means that solar has leveled up. I'm paying $12k** for a system that two years ago would have cost $30k. That's signaling a pretty significant drop in price due to the technology advancing and becoming cheaper.

The math works out pretty easily. It works for some people, and it doesn't for some others. You just consider the cost of the system, the amount of power it produces, the price you normally pay for power, the lifespan of the system, and how long you plan on staying in the property.

My power bill averages $200 a month. A $12,000 system produces 120% of my current usage, and reduces my power bill to $10-20/mo for connection charges to stay connected to the grid. Without allowing for the small amount of money I might make selling excess power back to the grid, I save $180 a month.

The system will hypothetically pay for itself after 5.5 years in savings. Each year thereafter, I save an additional $2160 a year in power costs. If I keep the system for 15 years, I'll have saved $20,340. The system is warranted to last 25 years, but I figure 15 years from now something better might come along.

Taxes, in general, are a scam. I won't apologize for taking advantage of a tax credit. All things considered, I pay more than my fair share.

**Without the tax credit, my system is quoted at $16.5k. a competitor quoted $29k for the same output.

One thing that many do not consider is when on the grid. You just pay and receive. That is basically it.

The system you embarked on is a maintenance headache in the making and it is all yours.
Now Tesla might stand behind it, for a while or maybe not. And who knows, it might never need anything, lol. But that is not how they work.

I just do not see the benefit. But you do. And in this case that is all that matters. I do not wish problems for you. I know you research things well. So it will probably work out ok.

I have a Tesla system, no battery. I haven’t paid any money to APS this year. My home is a zero energy home, so the solar should offset any bills. I doubt I’ll ever pay anything to APS.

Just so people understand, APS is the power monopoly in Arizona. My neighbors without solar are spending over $2k a year on APS. The solar pays for itself quickly here in Az.

EDITED WITH UPDATED NUMBERS.

Also, since this has come up before.

$12,000 invested at 6% interested will be worth $51,502.45 at 25 years.

$12,000 invested into Solar will save $180 a month, which, if invested at 6% will be worth $121,732.01 at 25 years.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Aeteocles,

But your $12k system doesn't include storage, correct? What happens at night, when it rains, cloudy days, etc.?

Also, without storage, the 8kW is fixed. It may cover your average usage, but it won't cover peak like when the 4.5kW water heater kicks in while your 2-ton 7kW AC is running.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bytes:
My son had new roofing put on before the panels. Apparently it's a real bitch to put new shingles on AFTER the panels are installed. Made sense to me.[/QUOTE}

I think there is some requirement for the roof to be under 10 years old before installing solar panels here in Florida.

OP- have more attic insulation blown in to R-30, it will make a huge difference in your electric bill and will pay for itself in 3-6 months in FL.

Trapper, it's "net metering." You use grid power when needed, and you send excess back to the grid for others to use. You pay for your "net" usage, calculated annually (to even usage out across seasons).

In a power outage, your system cuts you out from the grid so you don't send power upstream to utility workers.

Edit: you need the more advance energy gateway and an energy storage system to use your panels in a blackout.

Ah, that makes sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Trapper, it's "net metering." You use grid power when needed, and you send excess back to the grid for others to use. You pay for your "net" usage, calculated annually (to even usage out across seasons).

In a power outage, your system cuts you out from the grid so you don't send power upstream to utility workers. You can also manually disconnect from the grid if you wish to not send power back into the grid. Your inverter will produce power locally for your own use, so even without power storage, I can still run my fridge and charge my small electronic devices during daylight hours.

This is new, the inverter previously would kill power to prevent backfeed to utilities. Do you know the mechanism that it uses to remedy the backfeed situation?

Previously you had to have a power wall to use power in an outage.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Trapper, it's "net metering." You use grid power when needed, and you send excess back to the grid for others to use. You pay for your "net" usage, calculated annually (to even usage out across seasons).

In a power outage, your system cuts you out from the grid so you don't send power upstream to utility workers. You can also manually disconnect from the grid if you wish to not send power back into the grid. Your inverter will produce power locally for your own use, so even without power storage, I can still run my fridge and charge my small electronic devices during daylight hours.

This is new, the inverter previously would kill power to prevent backfeed to utilities. Do you know the mechanism that it uses to remedy the backfeed situation?

Previously you had to have a power wall to use power in an outage.

Edit: you are correct, solar power is turned off during outages to protect the grid. Bummer. I must have got it in my head somehow that solar would provide power without storage in a blackout.

Seems like a really good market for an ultra small backup battery, just so you can use the solar panels in an emergency.

I'm starting to look into solar again. Last time, I think a system for my house would have been $20-30K - no way.

But $12K is ball park considerable. Cost and break even is one consideration. One primary consideration is the power during outages. I'm surprised to learn that solar is not available during outages; reasoning makes sense though.

1. I thought generators have a system such that when it's turned on, you're off grid. Can't such a system be applied here as well? Perhaps with a little more intelligence like - if no grid power, then disconnect from grid and allow solar, else if grid power on, then allow solar while attached to grid.

2. why powerwall vs a generator connected in parallel to solar? During an outage and no solar is available (night), why not use a generator instead of powerwall - more sustainable for extended outages? When off grid and no solar, use a generator. When solar is available, don't use generator. Seems like generator ($5-7K) is in the same ballpark as powerwall cost (except for maintenance?)?

3. I heard you can specify solar panel type - tesla provides good ones (ie - panasonic?) and PRC ones. Is this true and that you can specify something like panasonic panels only? How do you know what the options are?

People get enamored with the idea of solar. I get it. "Yea it's a Tesla."
But the huge outlay of $ to do it and then there is the you got, you own it, you are tied to the outfit that sold you on their system, equipment maintenance, replacement, What about this, what about that, etc.
Sure, the independence is nice, but you are still tied to the grid to varying degree's.
Save the planet, save $, save whatever. It just does not pan out as I can tell at least for me.

I would like to see the numbers of the actual cost to install, operate, maintain solar power panels; the actual power generated; the cost savings compared to power from the grid; AND, how much cost is covered by gov't (ie taxpayer) subsidy somewhere in the supply chain.

I actually don’t care about any of that. I care a bit about brand to the extent I avoid fly by night companies. I care about product quality. I care about financial return. A five year break even with a quality product that will last 15+ years is what I care about. And utility for outages.

I’m spending $300+ a month on electricity. $200 in winter. And that’s without running the ac as much as I would like. 5 year BE while running the ac more is attractive.