So for my 50th birthday, I decided to get my pilot's license. It's a big step for me because I've always been terrified of flying. I have about 12 hours logged so far and am enjoying the process more than I thought I would (although if I were doing it again, I'd probably not choose to start in the SW FL summer time).

Watching some flying videos on YouTube, I came across a cool little 4 seater plane called a Sling TSi. It is an experimental/kit plane. I was curious what people thought of this plane and the idea of kit/experimental planes in general. Safety, reliability, etc.

I have no interest in building it myself, not much skill or experience doing these kinds of projects and no place to do it (I live in a condo), but it seems like a cool little plane - 4 comfortable seats, 1000 mile range, 1000LB useful load 150kt cruising speed, 8 GPH. Not sure of the all in cost (depends on options and avionics choices), but it looks to be under $300k for a fully loaded model.

Just so folks can find info...
Link to Sling TSI

The TSI is a great plane. There is no reason why an “experimental” plane can’t be as safe or safer than a certified aircraft, especially given the age of the GA fleet and technology gap.

A huge upside to an experimental is you can add/change anything you want and do all the maintenance yourself. If you built it, you can also do the annual “condition” inspection.

I also believe you can get as much help or hire help to build it, not sure offhand if/where there is a cutoff where you just didn’t do enough building to be the “builder” in the eyes if of the FAA.


With a certified plane as the owner you can’t hardly do any maintenance, have to hire an expensive A&P and even the smallest change has to be with a certified part that has an FAA approved STC for that part to be installed on that aircraft.

Check out the Vans line as well.

With a budget of 300K you can get a VERY nice certified aircraft. A nice Cessna 182, 180/185, 206, and the Beach Bonanza all fall into that range. If your sure you want an experimental aircraft, the Van RV series is a good choice. I believe the key to buying a experimental airplane is to find one built by someone with a good reputation in that community.

I've built 5 experimentals, but having never built one of Vans's RV's I recommend them to all my friends who want to avoid Certified. Plenty change hands, and most of them are fairly well built.

Look at Vans RV-9a for a moderately fast, efficient design, or an RV-10 if you really need 4 seats. Both utilize time proven aircraft engines that you can trust and fly IFR behind. Too few Slings in the fleet to have a good history and pedigree, in my opinion.

At this point I don't know where I'd keep a plane. The local airport has a long wait list for hangers.

But the Sling looks super cool (although I've never flown a plane with a stick - just a yoke).

Buy a house in an airpark such as Wing South Airpark in Naples.

quote:

Originally posted by dfwglockguy:
With a budget of 300K you can get a VERY nice certified aircraft. A nice Cessna 182, 180/185, 206, and the Beach Bonanza all fall into that range. If your sure you want an experimental aircraft, the Van RV series is a good choice. I believe the key to buying a experimental airplane is to find one built by someone with a good reputation in that community.

These are my thoughts. Get a Cirrus or Mooney and it'll retain it's value and safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:

I also believe you can get as much help or hire help to build it, not sure offhand if/where there is a cutoff where you just didn’t do enough building to be the “builder” in the eyes if of the FAA.

The "51% rule" applies.

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Be careful of the advice that is appearing in this thread from people who are expressing opinions without real knowledge or qualifications.

On the other hand, aileron knows what he's talking about. Listen to him.

For a great source of information, check the Experimental Aircraft Association website. The EAA is not expensive to join, they are really the authority on this topic. They sponsor two huge national expo type events each year, one at Oshkosh Wisconsin, and Sun-And-Fun here in Florida at the Lakeland airport. Additionally, there are local chapters -- there is one at Our Little Airport (Apopka) that has monthly meetings, open to anyone who cares to attend. We do have a bunch of home-builts hangared here.

I’ve flown a lot of certified airplanes and no homebuilts, so bear that in mind. I’d be a lot more comfortable with a new pilot buying a certified airplane, not because they are better (many Christen Eagle homebuilts make factory built, certified, Pitts look like crud) but because they are a known commodity. Once a pilot has more experience, a better idea of what his mission profile is going to look like, then it might make more sense to consider a homebuilt. If you end up deciding you want a Bonanza instead of the 182 you bought, selling the 182 will be easy. The same may not be true if you decide the homebuilt type you bought isn’t the right bird for your missions.

A couple more things to consider with homebuilt aircraft:

1) The size of the fleet and the track record matters. There are a ton of RVs out there. If one of them crashes, most folks will assume pilot or builder error and it will have no effect on the value of the RV that you bought.
If on the other hand you buy something new that has ten kits sold and four of them flying, if one of them crashes it may very well affect the value of the one you just bought.

2) Many homebuilts are supported by small or infant companies. Even if they designed a great plane and sold great kits, it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility that they could go BK, close shop, and leave you with no support. With a more established kit company the risk is lower.

I’m not anti-homebuilt, I wanted a Lancair IV-P for a long time. I just didn’t have the time to build one and was uncertain about trusting someone else’s work (though they might do a better job than I could, I just wouldn’t know.). I just think one ought to have some experience and a good understanding of how they are actually going to use the aircraft before committing to a homebuilt. The build process is a commitment if one is going to build. If one is going to buy someone else’s build, the more knowledge and experience the buyer has, the better. I’d still recommend a thorough prepurchase inspection from an AI you know and trust. My typical approach is to ask the AI to dig into it as if he were doing an annual on it and was going to sign the annual off. Just wait on the maintenance things like repacking the wheel bearings until I make the purchase and give the go ahead.

Good luck on your adventure!

Learning to fly comes with big dreams. Most of the time, the ambition of what we'd like to fly is tempered by the cost of purchase, maintaining, hangaring, insuring, etc. We realize that what we see ourselves doing doesn't match the mission profile. But we dream about it anyway.

There are those who can afford to go bigger, faster, higher performance, right away, and it's for that reason that even simple light airplanes like the Cessna 210 and the "fork-tail doctor killer," the Bonanza, gained reputations. They can be flown safely, and are, but the problem has long been people stepping up in performance too soon, beyond their capability and training, and then attempting to take it beyond their abilities (instrument conditions, etc).

The very popular Cirrus aircraft used to be experimentals; they were plans and kit aircraft long before they became production aircraft. They feature the BRS rocket assisted parachute ballistic recovery system, billed as a safety device...and it is...except that over half of the "saves" have been very unnecessary.

The "saves" have been unnecessary because the users flew beyond their capability or into places that good airmanship dictates they shouldn't have been in the first place (at night, over the mountains, in a thunderstorm with four people on board, for example, or long overwater flights); a number have deployed the parachute because they flew into instrument conditions, got disoriented, then fired the rocket...they shouldn't have been there to begin with, and went there because the parachute led to over confidence and unreasonable decision making. The point is that especially in aviation, the temptation to go there, to go bigger, faster, and into more challenging conditions, is frequently a contributing factor in mishaps, fatalities.

Experimentals, properly done, offer a lot; performance, value, etc. There are a lot of good aircraft and designs out there. There are a lot of lemons, too. Small mistakes turn ugly; the loss of a P-51 at Reno years ago occurred because the crew re-used a single locknut. The Vans RV-3's (and some RV-4's) had a series of issues with using the wrong size bolts for certain applications, and I've seen a LOT of uses of the wrong hardware, or maintenance practices, over the years. Good values, and bad. The consequences of bad can be very bad.

Learn to fly, don't try to exceed your needs or capabilities, upgrade in equipment in small steps, and seek good training. Be conservative in your decision making. Enjoy the journey. Always be willing to park the airplane and fly commercial, or take a car. There's no flight which must be made. There are a lot that shouldn't be made.

Many sellers and manufacturers are overly generous with their performance assessments. Take everything with a grain of salt. Things cost a lot more than you think. That first annual inspection is often an eye opener. First condition inspection, too.

It's aviation. It's usually about the journey, not the destination. I've heard many opine that the J-3 Cub has a built-in headwind. It's slow. But does it really matter how long it takes to get there, when you're happy where you are? The journey, when it comes to private flying, often IS the destination. It's about the journey. Enjoy the journey.

Though I was not a pilot, I was a navigator, I always remember the quote below....

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect." — Captain A. G. Lamplugh, British Aviation Insurance Group, London. 1930's

Why not stay with the tried-and-true while you build your hours? A C172 or Cherokee 140-180 will always have a demand, and are a very known quantity.
MojoGrip's Sling is very nice. However, he built his time in something else before that plane.
I am in the process of ASEL certification as well (student), and am having the same debates in my head that you are.
Related story: a friend of mine has a nice 2018 Cirrus SR-22 that he learned to fly in. His insurance bill was VERY high until he hit the 200-250 hour mark. Then it dropped dramatically.
What I took from that was: get something to build your initial 1-2-300 hours in that you can afford, and then maybe look at stepping up to high performance/complex on down the road a bit.
As sns3 said: enjoy the journey a little bit.
Good luck in whichever way you decide to go!

All those interested should plan an Oshkosh visit if the schedule allows. It a great place to get the aviation fix, research on buying or building too.

https://www.eaa.org/airventure

I always recall the saying that, If you can Fly it, F... it, or float it, lease it. I've violated one of those.

quote:

Originally posted by VictimNoMore:
Why not stay with the tried-and-true while you build your hours? A C172 or Cherokee 140-180 will always have a demand, and are a very known quantity.

I agree with this. By starting with something a bit more straightforward , it will give you time to learn more about flying (Private license is just a start) as well as learning about airplane ownership , which a completely new and important topic.

Give yourself a few years of learning in a conventional plane. You'll be able to make much more educated decisions about what you really need by then. It's more than just about flying.

My ownership history was 1954 Piper Tripacer 135, 1964 Piper Cherokee 235 and 1963 Mooney 180 ( needless to say, I'm an older pilot). I don't regret any of my planes. ;- ))

Smooth air and tailwinds ! mike

For people like me that are interested. How much are lessons per flight ??? Average time to be proficient and able to solo ?? Thank you for any info. God Bless !!!

quote:

Originally posted by VBVAGUY:
For people like me that are interested. How much are lessons per flight ??? Average time to be proficient and able to solo ?? Thank you for any info. God Bless !!!

I'm sure it can vary widely.

When I was an active student pilot, I had an instructor in his 70s that did it because he wanted to, not out of any necessity of $$$.
So, his lessons were $50, regardless of length. And, at the time I had unlimited use of a '72 Cessna 150M, just had to "not crash it & keep the tanks full".

Last I'd checked, one of the local flights schools ran something like $175/hr, plane & instructor, but that was probably 15 years ago.
That airport was, luckily, outside of IAH airspace. The next closest to me is within the IAH bubble, so a bit longer required lesson time to get out to an operational area outside of IAH airspace.

RE: The OP, that Sling is a sleek looking plane. Reminds me of the Cessna Corvalis/TTx/Columbia 400

quote:

Originally posted by VBVAGUY:
For people like me that are interested. How much are lessons per flight ??? Average time to be proficient and able to solo ?? Thank you for any info. God Bless !!!

My instructor charges $85/hr and the plane (a Cessna 172S) is $155/hr wet (fuel included). Lessons are typically about 1.5 hours each of flying time.

quote:

Originally posted by VBVAGUY:
For people like me that are interested. How much are lessons per flight ??? Average time to be proficient and able to solo ?? Thank you for any info. God Bless !!!

Aircraft rental and flight instructor time is typically paid by the hour. Many also have an hourly rate for ground instruction time, too. There are flight schools that are busy and have slightly reduced minimum times to complete training (Part 141 schools), and there are schools that simply teach to proficiency (Part 61 schools).

Solo is typically 10-20 hours of time, and a private pilot typically takes 70-80 hours of time. The FAA says 40 hours is the minimum, but the average is closer to double that.

There are factors that affect the time. If you're flying from a busy, controlled airfield, it takes extra time to takeoff and get out of the controlled area, and then to get back in; you end up paying for more flight time and instructor time, though you do get used to flying in an air traffic control environment. On the other hand, if you learn to fly at an uncontrolled airport (no control tower, less air traffic), you'll spend more time training, out of your training dollar, and likely require less overall time to solo, and to get to your private pilot certificate.

The total cost to complete a private can run between about 7,500 and 10,500 these days. It can be less, but it depends on what you're training in and where, and with who. It depends a lot on how often you can train. 2-3 flights a week is ideal to stay proficient; longer times between flights means you don't progress as quickly, and spend more time reviewing, and don't necessarily retain as much between lessons.

Flying isn't cheap. When I started, airplane rentals were as low as fifteen dollars an hour, up to thirty dollars or so. Today, the same aircraft would be 125-150 an hour. When I began instructing, I made up to seven dollars an hour, and typically got four or five of that. Today I'll charge fifty an hour, and that's a bargain compared to most. I also rarely instruct, but do maintain the certification anyway. When I began, my checkride cost forty dollars; that's what the designated examiner charged. Today it's not uncommon to pay an examiner close to seven hundred dollars, which is government sanctioned extortion in my opinion...but it is what it is.

Add in a decent headset, books, and supplies, and you'll increase the cost another few hundred to a couple thousand, depending on what you decide to buy. In my opinion, today a good noise cancelling headset ought to be standard; a Bose runs a thousand bucks give or take, but lasts a long time, and provides crystal clear communications, and is worth the cost.

Most schools will have an introductory flight lesson that lasts a half hour to an hour, and will charge a package rate, typically a hundred fifty to two hundred.

Be aware that the first time you get your hands on the flight controls and discover, "Yes, I really can do this," you may have involuntarily committed yourself. Those childhood dreams can come true; it's just a matter of money.