What is kind of shocking to me is that another country has not charged Fauci. Don't think the Auto Pen Pardon applies to another country.

IMHO, Gabbard has been quietly competent and I will miss her. This is coming from someone who did not like her at all but then I watched the Jack Carr Podcast interview with her and changed my opinion. I hope her husband recovers but if he doesn't, that they spend what time remains with their family and friends.

I used to think that pancreatic cancer was so horrible that nobody should suffer it. Perhaps the exception has been identified.

Ever since the COVID-19 pandemic everyone is an epidemiology expert, but it wasn’t like that before the outbreak. There were specialists in the field, but more commonly it was nonspecialist health care providers and a few like me who had had an interest in things like historical plagues. A few years before I had participated in a state-wide exercise simulating emergency response to what the COVID-19 pandemic turned into, except that the exercise disease was more deadly.

It may therefore be useful to understand that most of the public health measures that were mandated or recommended during the real pandemic were what were considered reasonable by public health authorities, including some that were incorporated in the exercise the state conducted.





One of the most contentious and reviled measures were the mask mandates with some people claiming that they did nothing to prevent spread of the disease. I won’t get into whether that skepticism is valid, but what were the authorities supposed to think at the time? Mask mandates and practices have been believed to help prevent the spread of disease for well over 100 years in countries where the germ theory of disease is understood and not believed to be caused by demons or the like. The above photo was from the time of the (so-called) Spanish flu epidemic of about 1918-20. I have a letter from the period written by one grandmother in which she described sewing masks for her family. People didn’t especially like wearing them any more than we do today, but they were recommended by doctors and because people then recognized the seriousness of getting the flu, most complied.

But that was then, and this is now. Why do doctors and other health care providers, and sometimes even other first responders wear masks? Why does my local hospital mandate masks for people with certain symptoms? Why does my local physician ask patients with those symptoms to wear a mask when going to her office? The answer is, and has been obvious. Masks don’t guarantee any absolute protection, but they can help. That’s why they were used in the past, are used today, and will be used in the future (at least by people who didn’t become epidemiologist experts due to the COVID-19 experience).

Then the social distancing recommendation. Stay away from people who are sick with certain diseases and that reduces your chances of become sick yourself. The reason for that is because certain diseases such as COVID-19 are caused by viruses or other microorganisms, and after becoming sick by them, we may shed and spread them by various means, but most commonly through the contents of our expelled breath. If we are close to someone whose breath contains a disease-causing organism, that increases our chance of getting the disease ourself. Even before the germ theory of disease was developed, our ancestors realized that very often it was a good idea to stay away from people who were sick if they didn’t want to get sick themselves.

During the Spanish flu epidemic several Colorado towns tried to impose self-quarantine measures. The town were my father was born attempted it and turned away a man who had been out of town for some time. Up until that point the flu hadn’t surfaced in the community. He snuck in, though, and although he was caught and fined, people started getting sick with the flu thereafter, and some died. In comparison, one Colorado town did enforce a quarantine, reportedly to the point of posting armed guards along the roads into town. Did anyone get the flu there? No. Staying away from sick people can sometimes help us avoid getting sick ourselves (depending on the disease, of course).

Vaccinations. One of the things that George Washington mandated was that his soldiers be vaccinated against smallpox. Why? Because although no one knew exactly why it helped people keep from getting a severe form of the disease and possibly dying, it was clear that the procedure did that. In those days the vaccination procedure was much more unpleasant and dangerous that it is today, but it was recognized that in general the benefits outweighed the dangers.

Vaccinations work to not only protect individuals, but also populations at large because if enough of the population becomes immune to a disease, that keeps it from becoming an epidemic. Unprotected—and sometimes protected—individuals will still become sick, but it won’t spread and become a killer of large numbers. The efficacy of vaccination programs has been known from before this country became a nation, and especially within the past century.

So, why did health care providers support things like masks, distancing, and vaccinations at the start of the COVID-19 event? Because of all of the above. They had no reason to not believe that they would help reduce the seriousness of the pandemic. Nor did they have the benefit of the hindsight of our amateur experts who hung out in large crowds, didn’t wear a mask, never got vaccinated and yet never got the over-hyped Wu Flu. “It didn’t kill me, so why should I worry about how it affected millions of other people?”

But despite how I explained the history of the measures that people followed in the past to help prevent the spread of disease, some will still say, “Yeah, but: What about …?” The what about isn’t what I’m trying to point out. If you believe that a doctor or nurse at the start of the pandemic should have known that this or that measure with a long history of being effective wasn’t going to work that time: Why? Why should they have known what you believe you know today?
(That, BTW, is what’s called a rhetorical question and I expect no rational answer.)

quote:

Originally posted by Snapping Twig:
He should burn in hell!

All that covid scam to get mail in ballots so the demonrats could cheat.

People need prison time!

Not to mention what it did to the economy, housing market, car market, various hobbies (bicycling & guitars, just to name 2) and flooding Florida with assholes from NY and NJ.

It increased the magnitude/volume of a sustained flood of mASSholes into NH as well, which continues unabated and has completely fucked up the housing market here! The only people that can afford to buy a house in my area are those that 'already' own one!

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
One of the most contentious and reviled measures were the mask mandates with some people claiming that they did nothing to prevent spread of the disease. I won’t get into whether that skepticism is valid, but what were the authorities supposed to think at the time? Mask mandates and practices have been believed to help prevent the spread of disease for well over 100 years in countries where the germ theory of disease is understood and not believed to be caused by demons or the like.

People in authority should have consulted people with expertise. They should have read the many studies previously done that found when masks are or are not effective.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
But that was then, and this is now. Why do doctors and other health care providers, and sometimes even other first responders wear masks? Why does my local hospital mandate masks for people with certain symptoms? Why does my local physician ask patients with those symptoms to wear a mask when going to her office?

Spittle is why. Large droplets of saliva or mucous that contain virus or bacteria. The mask weave of sufficiently small dimension will prevent spittle from a cough or sneeze from escaping. Even the N95 weave is not small enough to stop virus particles expelled with vapor from natural breathing. It will stop the larger liquid droplets from a sneeze or cough. Thus there is no expectation that a person who is not infected gains protection from wearing a mask. Furthermore, there are some significant harms caused by wearing masks. Developmental problems in children, inhaling tiny plastic particles, social isolation, inhibiting communication, etc. Universal masking was a disaster for many. I see it in some of my own grandchildren.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Then the social distancing recommendation. Stay away from people who are sick with certain diseases and that reduces your chances of become sick yourself. The reason for that is because certain diseases such as COVID-19 are caused by viruses or other microorganisms, and after becoming sick by them, we may shed and spread them by various means, but most commonly through the contents of our expelled breath.

So what did the authorities do? The locked us all into tight quarters in our homes. If one person became sick, it was nearly 100% certain the rest of the family would become infected. It was known early on that the virus does not survive very long at all in open air and in sunlight. Thus, when you are outside, unless an infected person sneezed directly in your face there was virtually zero risk of becoming infected while outdoors. Indoors, it was quickly found that a sick person coughing or sneezing spreads the virus much further than 6 feet. Social distancing at the grocery store was useless, and the authorities knew it.

In the past, isolating the sick away from the healthy, but allowing the healthy to continue normal lives was an effective strategy.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Vaccinations.

Nope, inoculation is the thing that works, and what Washington imposed on his troops. Being exposed to the pathogen itself creates natural immunity. Vaccination is an artificial extension which involves much more than a form of the pathogen. Substances are in the injection which can be very toxic and which can cause affiliated immune system problems. The adjuvants irritate the immune system to create a stronger response to the somewhat neutered pathogen. But this irritation can activate the immune system against other things that happen to be present at that time. Allergies to foods or autoimmune disease can result.

The mRNA shots were not vaccines, either. They are gene therapies which permanently alter a person's dna, with unknown long term consequences.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Vaccinations work to not only protect individuals, but also populations at large because if enough of the population becomes immune to a disease, that keeps it from becoming an epidemic.

Except that it is well known amongst virologists that inoculation must occur before a pandemic. Once the pandemic is in full swing it isn't going to be stopped.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
So, why did health care providers support things like masks, distancing, and vaccinations at the start of the COVID-19 event? Because of all of the above.

Because they were lied to by authorities into believing the mRNA shots were safe and effective. Because they were directly threatened with loss of job, loss of medical license, loss of pharmacist license, and even criminal charges.

I believe that in addition to the profit motive and the DC political power (anti-Trump) factors, the mandates and restrictions were a large forced compliance exercise. Mask mandates, needing a letter showing I was an essential worker to be outside of my home, closing beaches and parks, mandating jabs to keep a job or to travel, having snitch phone lines to turn in neighbors who had an outdoor family gathering.

Thanks for all that. Like discussions about religion, I don’t need to accept the arguments in order to learn a lot. I do, however, believe you missed my overall point.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
People in authority should have consulted people with expertise.

As for that, what good would it have done if they were all subject to a massive coordinated effort to silence all the public health providers and authorities into going along with measures that they should have known were going to be ineffective anyway? Knowing the actual truth of all that would have made no difference.

I find it a little difficult to imagine they got to the public health director and providers, many of whom I knew personally, in my small, rural town. I was fairly involved in activities that would have exposed me to the men in whatever color who were enforcing those efforts.

(Another rhetorical question that I will leave at that. This time for sure. )

Large crowds?

Just remember at that time, you couldn't attend services at a church, but it was okay to burn one.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Thanks for all that. Like discussions about religion, I don’t need to accept the arguments in order to learn a lot. I do, however, believe you missed my overall point.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
People in authority should have consulted people with expertise.

As for that, what good would it have done if they were all subject to a massive coordinated effort to silence all the public health providers and authorities into going along with measures that they should have known were going to be ineffective anyway? Knowing the actual truth of all that would have made no difference.

I find it a little difficult to imagine they got to the public health director and providers, many of whom I knew personally, in my small, rural town. I was fairly involved in activities that would have exposed me to the men in whatever color who were enforcing those efforts.

(Another rhetorical question that I will leave at that. This time for sure. )

I appreciate honest exchange of ideas and opinions.

The public health authority is an interesting part of the picture. I should say that I believe the large majority of docs, public health authorities, pharmacists, etc were well intentioned. My FAA doc has a stellar reputation for watching out for pilots' health in addition to her basic function as an AME. She is well read and up to date on medical literature.

The question of who has qualified expertise needs clarification. My intention was to separate out people such as politicians, corporate leaders, the media, and even us from those with substantial specific knowledge of the relevant science. Any particular doctor, pharmacist, or public health official may not be such an expert, but they should have the background and intelligence to become well informed by literature.

The problem as I understand it, is that everything was driven from the top down from the beginning, and interacts with the political tribalization of the country. Your local public health authority was at the end of a long communication line, starting with Fauci and passing through your state Governor. At the local level they were given only sanctioned information from above. My doc believed in her heart that I had "a big target on my back", and she pressured me to get the vaccine asap. I refused, but my wife's doc convinced her to get the jab because he believed it was safe and effective.

Anyone who stepped out of line was cancelled or threatened. They were pilloried, made examples of what happens to those spreading "misinformation". Doctors lost their licenses.

As to public health, they have a different mission than a doctor, and many in fact have no medical degree or training. They should be experts in the scientific literature and the history of various interventions, but they, too, were limited by what the approved narrative allowed. They were assured mRNA is safe and effective. They were told masks are effective, that lockdowns work, that putting up plexiglass shields around work stations helped. In fact, all of those were known false by the higher authorities or were rapidly proven false, yet they pushed the narrative ever harder.

An interesting description of public health is they are akin to managing a large herd of animals. They have no interest in the health of any individual animal, they are interested in the greatest number surviving. But for the owner of an individual animal, you work with a veterinarian for the best outcome for your individual animal. Public health should be providing information to doctors and nurses, who then have a duty to provide individualized care to people, based on best judgement of the medic and the informed decisions of the patient.

So that was a bit of a long way around to say that many public health agencies failed for the same reason my FAA doc failed. I am sure that, like some docs, some public health officials went along to protect their careers.

^^^ and don’t tell us the auto-pen gave Fauci a pardon. We all know it wasn’t Biden and he didn’t have the capacity anyway.

Just indict him, try him, convict him and let him appeal based on his so-called pardon.

Crimes against humanity, mass murder… versus an auto-pen pardon?

Fauci’s so-called pardon does not protect him from state charges or civil lawsuits. If we can’t put him in prison, put him in the poorhouse.

^^^

Not good enough

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
It increased the magnitude/volume of a sustained flood of mASSholes into NH as well, which continues unabated and has completely fucked up the housing market here! The only people that can afford to buy a house in my area are those that 'already' own one!

I feel your pain brother. Growing numbers of CT and NY'ers fleeing to NH as well.

Why did she wait until her last day to release those files? Why not release them in her first few weeks on the job? I've always liked her, but this act (and the timing of it) seems to me like theater and drama.

quote:

Originally posted by chbibc:
but this act (and the timing of it) seems to me like theater and drama.

Because theater and drama are in most cases enough to at least give the appearance something is getting done and something is going to happen. There will be investigations that dissolve with the next news cycle. There will be congressional hearings that are televised with their gotcha questions and answers that are most likely scripted for our consumption. The hearing ends and everyone has lunch together.

Unfortunately drain the swamp was not much more than a campaign slogan. Even more unfortunate is that it is the one thing and perhaps the only thing that will save this country. The enemy has well infested the corridors of power. Unless this changes not much will.

Not all us people in NJ are assholes!

I want a public trial, then a proper hanging in a town square just like the old days. But I want him to watch the test bag drop many times first.

^^^^

Much better.

And yeah, NJ DOES have a lot of a-holes. They hit most between Memorial Day and Labor Day. a Iive at the Jersey shore

I've regularly been wishing the most painful and long last dick cancer imaginable on Fauci since the early days of covid.