just reading an answer on Quora about cops tracing firearms that were purchased from a store (instead of friend to friend).
If the government was trying to take guns, would they be looking at grandchildren for guns if grand parent and parent are both deceased ? Or would the deceased owner/purchaser be the end of any formal search activity ? Just curious .... not paranoid

Depends on if one had a horse, or a child had a fever, or a grandchild ever ate tacos.

(Replying for a friend.)

There was a horse and the child had a fever at some point. No tacos though.

If the investigator was a really hard charger, then they could question family about what the disposition of the firearms was. If your cousin said that you got the guns or said that he knows you have them because you showed them at the X-mas get together, then possibly that might be enough for a search warrant.

Makes sense. I suppose it's whether the officer in question is really interested or not...

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Depends on if one had a horse, or a child had a fever, or a grandchild ever ate tacos.

(Replying for a friend.)

I haven’t had a horse, but I’ve had fevers and I’ve had many tacos. And grandfather’s firearms. Allegedly. No traces here. And now I want tacos.

quote:

Just curious .... not paranoid

I believe you.

I just realized - the famous Q that has everyone freaking out is a fellow forumite.

If your Grandpa was John Dillinger you might be in trouble. You never know what Grandpa was like in his twenties.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
If your Grandpa was John Dillinger you might be in trouble. You never know what Grandpa was like in his twenties.

You’re right, my grandfather was in to some interesting things.

You would be surprised at what some people have in their attics or basements. And have received from
relatives who bought stuff prior to GCA 1934.
The WWII Vets had some great stuff.
My PD actually to post a notice asking people not bring ammo or explosives into our lobby!

You do know that FFL's and bound book record keeping is a recent event in the history of guns. I don't care where you bought it or how, if it predates modern record keeping there is not a chance at traceability.

When I was with the cops and we found/recovered a gun.....we routinely ran an ATF trace on it.

If, (and I say IF in big bold letters) had any inkling they would let us know.

So it goes like this:

The manufacturer has a list of serial numbers.
They send those number to the ATF- and to what distributors they sent what numbers to.

The distribution center, tells ATF, who they sold the gun to=what FFL.

Then the FFL Gets a call and has to search his records, based on the serial number, to whom he sold the particular gun to....name, dob, address, phone #....everything on the 4473....


How long has the 4473 been required? Since about 1968 is the best I can gather. So if Pop-Pop bought a gun before then...the ATF has very little chance of tracing the gun. But we all know how things get passed down...


The FFL doesn’t have to turn in his books until he quits the business or after 20 years...then the bound book is turned into the ATF. They have people to enter all sales into a searchable database for those books turned in.

They,ATF, has been providing computer based searchable info for the FFL to use, so that searches are fast for the ATF when they call.

Literally it takes less than a minute after the lady gives you the serial number to when yoU have an answer.

So basically, if it was bought before 1968 they might have a long search or even unsearchable serial number.

Tracing is a bit misunderstood. It is not an end all, be all. For a variety of factors, anything purchased over 20 years ago is spotty at best. People also misunderstand the 4473, and it’s retention times. An FFL is only required to retain them for 20 years. That’s it.

A trace just goes back to the original purchaser. If the purchaser is deceased, unless someone talks that’s it.

Tracing is a solid tool. A full 50 percent of the firearms my day job recovers are stolen and not reported. That’s right, 5 out of every 10 guns are stolen but not entered into NCIC. All it takes is leg work. The trace is only an investigative lead, and it’s only as good as the investigator that reads it. An urgent trace usually comes back within 24 hours. A routine trace is about 10 business days.

I read a lot of black helicopter stuff about tracing, e4473 and the like. As of right now, all the concern is unfounded. I get we are afraid of the things we don’t understand. But, there are more valid things to worry about.

Not to mention, some of your grand dad’s guns may not have serial numbers to begin with. That was 1968.

My grand parents died in the 50s so I'll wish anyone that tries to find out anything about what firearms they owned will very quickly run into a brick wall called no records of any purchases.

Don't forget that most gunsmiths are FFLs and enter customers' guns into their bound books. I have guns that are older than the 4473 and thus aren't on ATFs radar. But, if I take them to an FFL gunsmith, and that boundbook gets handed over or audited, suddenly, my gun has a paper trail.

Well..... here is a true as it happened to me. It’s long. Back in the mid 90s I was getting my carry permit renewed in NH. I received a call them my permit was approved. I went to the PD. When I arrived and went to the front desk, announced who I was I saw a page on the desk in front of me. Reading it upside down it was every gun I had purchased. I quickly informed the officer that That collection had been sold, another had been sold to the chief of police at a neighboring town, etc., etc!!! She quickly removed the paper and slid my permit and asked for the $10.
So, if you have purchased any guns thru an FFL, no matter how many years ago, the Govt has a record of it. Be aware, Be very aware my friends. Big Brother has records of everything.

I have a gun or two from older relatives. I’d guess bought new no later than the early 1950’s. I really doubt there’s any record anywhere.

Back in the day you could buy a gun like a shovel, from the store. Was it 1968 things changed?

ATF does NOT have a central data base of guns ownership. We occasionally get "trace" requests at the store. It requires us to determine the year of purchase and sort thru that particular year's file. It's quite a task. Some states may have databases, such as California, but if there was a central one we wouldn't get trace requests.