quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Tracing is a bit misunderstood. It is not an end all, be all. For a variety of factors, anything purchased over 20 years ago is spotty at best. People also misunderstand the 4473, and it’s retention times. An FFL is only required to retain them for 20 years. That’s it.

A trace just goes back to the original purchaser. If the purchaser is deceased, unless someone talks that’s it.

Tracing is a solid tool. A full 50 percent of the firearms my day job recovers are stolen and not reported. That’s right, 5 out of every 10 guns are stolen but not entered into NCIC. All it takes is leg work. The trace is only an investigative lead, and it’s only as good as the investigator that reads it. An urgent trace usually comes back within 24 hours. A routine trace is about 10 business days.

I read a lot of black helicopter stuff about tracing, e4473 and the like. As of right now, all the concern is unfounded. I get we are afraid of the things we don’t understand. But, there are more valid things to worry about.

True.

Another factor in the tracing equation is that some states did, and some still do have private party sales.

Let's use Oregon as an example, hypothetically. Oregon began requiring universal background checks in 2015. But up until then, a feller could buy a new gun from an FFL, and then sell it to a private party without even keeping a record of sale for himself.* Now, not keeping a record of sale could be an issue if said gun was to turn up at a crime scene. But there wasn't a legal requirement to keep such a record of sale. So even if the gun could be traced to a purchaser from an FFL, if the gun and Granddad were both old enough, it's entirely possible that none of the grandchildren have the gun, and that granddad legally divested himself and it's gone gone gone now.

* it wasn't a well-used option at the time, but private party sellers could run buyers through the same instant-check background check using the Oregon State Police, but they had to pay the same $10 for that background check that FFLs did, it wasn't required, most people didn't know that they could do it, thus, instances of private parties using the system were extremely rare.

quote:

Originally posted by slabsides45:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Depends on if one had a horse, or a child had a fever, or a grandchild ever ate tacos.

(Replying for a friend.)

Chicken, or beef tacos?

Fish.

(My friend is a cat...)

just to clarify some things,


some companies, (Colt for example) have records for most if not all firearms made archived, and you can pay fro the privilege to see where it was sold to when it left the factory,

Winchester (the museum) has similar but they have made when records, and polish room records and those can get mixed up at times,


several other gun companies are the same, and some have little to no records left, (for various reasons)


you Colt SAA may be sold to joe's hardware in whateverville usa, but if it was pre 1968, that hand receipt is likely not stored anywhere,


post 68, the 4473's came into play (side track, years ago you did not have to provide ID, if the dealer knew you, he could simply check a box marked 'is known to me' and move on,,,,


so, post 68,

Smith makes a Mod 10,
sells it to Sports South,
who sells it to Bud's
who sells it to you via internet,
who then ships it to your FFL
where you do the paperwork,


gun is stolen, or you go rob a 7-11, get caught and the gun is traced,

the police call smith, and follow the trail above,

easy peasy,

unless that shop is closed, then the ATF starts digging thru records, if they have them,
if they do make it to you, the original buyer, you may still have it, may have sold it to Bob, who you never got an address, or if you did, then maybe Bob sold it etc etc etc,


according to the Compliance guy I know, traces usually drop after the 1st person, sometimes the second,


funny thing, I got a call one day from the NTC, very nice lady asked me to provide info on a transaction,

I told her I could not,

she got a bit miffed, explained to me who she was and the consequences etc etc, (this was my Father's FFL , I was still the contact person)

when I tolk her I would be happy to comply, but this was a closed shop, and the 4473's and copies of SOT forms (we kept copies of all form 3's and form 4's cause NFA branch has issues) were last seen in the trunk of a government Chevy,, she got real nice and thanked me ,


learned later she ripped someone's backside at the local branch for not turning over the forms in a timely manner,

also found out that they had not turned them in cause they used that NFA paperwork to help clean up an estate for a local guy that had capped himself, and a lot of his class 3 stuff went thru us