It’s a form of suicide. It’s part of the ennui which is destroying Western Civilization.

(Same with kids addicted to video games, social media, etc.)

I see it as a spiritual issue. I don’t think civilization is survivable without Christianity and Stoicism.

Historically, it works best when the Protestant form of Christianity is used, but Catholics may have a better time/tend to be more likely to keep up the birth rate.

quote:

Originally posted by patw:
It's amazing at how morally bankrupt we are becoming as a whole. Some people try to compare it to alcohol and say we can drink legally and it is just another type of vice. I don't care what you want to do but when as many people who want to smoke dope, shoot up, snort or drink away their lives and even hurt others while doing it, tells you something about a nation/government.

Yes, but...FREEDOM!!!

Waiting for someone to chime in with that old gem, "You can't legislate morality".

Yeah, it is exactly what this country needs - more stoned people. Making it more accessible to everyone won't have any negative consequences for society. Nope. None.

quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
These tools in Florida have been duped. The teachers and the law enforcement people I see barraging me with ads. The FL bill will change the constitution so that 1 company who wrote the law and has backed the Yes vote with 140 million in funding will have a monopoly on selling dope. You still Can’t grow it yourself. And if by chance anything possibly ever goes wrong they have written themselves immunity into the law. And despite the claims not one extra cent will go towards schools or LE.

That being said the legislature has had plenty of time to make a reasonable law but didn’t so this terrible amendment will likely pass and we will be fooked.

They have tried legalizing in all these states like CA and CO and it’s a cluster. It’s so over regulated a lot of dispensaries can’t sell it legally because street pot is much cheaper.

That's been our experience here in MO.
It's not really legal... it's a cartel.
It hasn't ended the underground trade, which is cheaper. It has created a whole new class of buyers/users and had made it acceptable in public to the point that you can't go anywhere without smelling it.

But my biggest problem with it is that the long term effects to the brains of heavy users is just now beginning to be understood. It's going to get a lot worse because it's so much more prevalent. Medicaid is going to be swamped.

quote:

Medicaid is going to be swamped.

If Willie Nelson is any indicator you are correct. He is 91 years old.

I know Medicare is not Medicaid, they might both be swamped.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Weed influences much more than alcohol when it comes to driving.

What a ridiculous statement. I’m sure statistics on DUI deaths would 100% back this up. NOT.

The gateway argument is also ludicrous. What is someone’s gateway drug? The very first drug they try that they enjoy.

I think the largest factor would be that it takes 4.5 hours before weed no longer impairs driving, but the user thinks they are no longer impaired after 1.5 hours

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Weed influences much more than alcohol when it comes to driving.

What a ridiculous statement. I’m sure statistics on DUI deaths would 100% back this up. NOT.

I don't know if it is more than alcohol related crashes but we are seeing more and more motor vehicle crashes with people who are doing/smoking weed, from young to old.

quote:

Originally posted by patw:

I don't know if it is more than alcohol related crashes but we are seeing more and more motor vehicle crashes with people who are doing/smoking weed, from young to old.

Of course, more people are smoking it. Correlation is not causation.

Also, much of the “data” linked to above is junk. They say the drivers had used weed, but didn’t say if they had anything else in their system. Show me deaths where ONLY weed was involved.

https://floridaelectionwatch.gov/Amendments

Amendment No. 3

Full Text: English | Español

Adult Personal Use of Marijuana Nonpartisan
Florida did not pass it.

Ballot Choice Votes Received
Yes for Approval 5,934,139
55.88%
No for Rejection 4,685,443
44.12%
Amendments require 60% to pass
Total 10,619,582

Massachusetts Question 4, Legalization and Regulation of Psychedelic Substances Initiative (2024)


Election results
See also: Results for marijuana and psychedelics ballot measures, 2024

Massachusetts Question 4

Result Votes Percentage

Yes 1,291,968 43.13%

Defeated No

1,703,794 56.87%

https://ballotpedia.org/Massac...ces_Initiative_(2024)



North Dakota Initiated Measure 5, Marijuana Legalization Initiative (2024)

https://ballotpedia.org/North_...ion_Initiative_(2024)


North Dakota Initiated Measure 5

Result Votes Percentage
Yes 171,747 47.45%
No 190,189 52.55%

quote:

What a ridiculous statement. I’m sure statistics on DUI deaths would 100% back this up. NOT.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
I do not believe I mentioned DUIs. Relevant arguments rather than ridiculous statements would be welcome. Weed influences different cognitive functions such as alterations in time space and reality. Studies do not show improvement in driving after using weed.

Several problems in Florida with the amendment process.

In this case, it's being used by big business to create constitutional laws that protect them and open barriers. (This is the big problem with FL Const Amend ballot initiatives)

Amendment 3 had nothing to do with freeing up the populace to recreationally purchase MJ.

Amend 3 was written by lawyers for one company that dropped over $100 million in advertising to get it passed. This amendment would allow the consumers to directly buy MJ without a medical card, but it would only allow a few corporations to sell it all the while stipulating that consumers could not grow their own for either medical or recreational use. A defacto legalized constitutionally created monopoly/cartel as all MJ would have to be bought through these companies.

It provided for zero restrictions on where it could be smoke, in fact it meant that you could fire up in a city park in any town and there was nothing anyone could do legally, as well as theme parks, hotels, lobby, walking down the street, in your car, everywhere.

And there was some paid doctor shilling for it telling us by letting 21 year old buy and smoke MJ anywhere anytime would somehow reduce the use and risk of sub 21 year olds, IE teens using.

Anyone here remember being a teen in the 60's and up, you going to tell me you couldn't find pot to buy at 16-17? Yeah, that law is going to stop teens from finding a way to get it, illegally, from a non state licensed seller AKA the Cartels.

Since a rolled joint is a rolled joint there is no way to know if the end user has Taxed Pot or illegal non taxed pot.

In fact it's likely to see untaxed pot sold on the streets as people look to find less expensive MJ than the over taxed high priced store bought MJ, and, where the kids will find it.

Defeating this has nothing to do with Cancer, you can buy medical MJ in Florida without a problem, getting a card isn't difficult especially if you have some disease like Cancer so that argument doesn't work in FL.

Defeating it was paramount, now having said that Tallahassee needs to find a way to deal with this or it will be on every ballot from now on.

Write a law, don't let it be a monopoly for a few companies, and accept that regulating and selling pot creates a legal pathway for Cartels to sell pot since it is no longer illegal to have in your possession and smoke.

Oh and one of the best parts, a super Dem, liberal mega donor attorney and the sole person responsible for high insurance rates in Florida (and other states) has a big amount of land to grow pot, just lost and that is glorious in and of itself.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
I do not believe I mentioned DUIs.

You referred to alcohol and driving. Of course I also did when I used "DUI". Come on, man.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Relevant arguments rather than ridiculous statements would be welcome.

I've never had someone make my point so well for me!

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
I think the largest factor would be that it takes 4.5 hours before weed no longer impairs driving, but the user thinks they are no longer impaired after 1.5 hours

I would like to add to this that many of the big employers require random drug tests, even if it's legal for recreational use. On average it takes 30 days to pass a pee test, hair test even longer. It really isn't in the same league as alcohol, as far as big companies that operate heavy equipment is concerned.
I don't think there is a good enough way to determine
how impaired you are at this point, when there is, if will most likely allow pot users to run heavy equipment.

Accurate drug testing is costly. Sadly most companies do a half ass job with a dipstick approach, which of course is not observed. I don't want a stoner physician and unfortunately physicians are often not tested.

quote:

I've never had someone make my point so well for me!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Poor attempt at a comeback. Truly lame.

I was driving behind a dude smoking a really big joint, and my plan was to call the police when he started swerving all over the road. But he drove perfectly, in heavy stop and go traffic. So I never made the call. And I seriously doubt the police would have had any interest in trying to find a dude smoking weed behind the wheel, even if he were driving erratically, I think they would have been annoyed if I had made the call, since that situation isn't really an emergency. My guess is probably most calls into 911 systems across the country are nuisance calls anyway, so why contribute to the load of stupid. I've called before for drunk drivers weaving all over the road, and nothing ever came of those calls either.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
I was driving behind a dude smoking a really big joint, and my plan was to call the police when he started swerving all over the road. But he drove perfectly, in heavy stop and go traffic. So I never made the call. And I seriously doubt the police would have had any interest in trying to find a dude smoking weed behind the wheel, even if he were driving erratically, I think they would have been annoyed if I had made the call, since that situation isn't really an emergency. My guess is probably most calls into 911 systems across the country are nuisance calls anyway, so why contribute to the load of stupid. I've called before for drunk drivers weaving all over the road, and nothing ever came of those calls either.

No way of knowing how impaired some one is, five beers or 5 joints are different to everyone, the user is the one that knows, but how can they determine that is anyone's guess. I don't use it, don't care if someone does, but with being impaired and causing an accident becomes an issue, then the blood test at the hospital will say under the influence, but was it enough? who knows. It's been around a long time, if they want to legalize it I'm sure it's for profit somewhere.

To be honest, a lot of the argument is just posturing.

Until we as a nation get serious on enforcing drunk driving, arguing about better/worse is pretty pointless.