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Looks Like GM Has Gone Full Retard - NO More Gasoline/Diesel Vehicles by 2035 Login/Join 
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Half the bullshit you EV guys are shoveling doesn’t even fucking exist. 500 mile range, 5 minute charge? Who the fuck are you kidding? Earlier it was swappable batteries. Yea ok. Some serious pretend game going on. You guys act like massive improvements are guaranteed when dealing with tech.

Some magic battery that you read is right there on the cusp of being made. Smaller, holds more charge, made out of clay and copper wire, takes a full charge faster than it takes to fill your tank. What’s the plan when this battery doesn’t actually turn out to exist? We just keep outlawing shit that works because somehow magically that will change the psychics?

What don’t we just play dress up instead if we are going to pretend as hard as you guys are. It’s like hope is your religion. I hope we figure out the way to increase electrical power output of an overstrained system, I hope we figure out the infrastructure, I hope the next battery is a shit ton better, I hope I hope I hope.
 
Posts: 7541 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by Scoutmaster:
quote:
Originally posted by 1s1k:. . .
I know one thing and that’s that they are not doing it to save the planet they are doing it to save money and become more profitable. The parts count difference I have read about is actually shocking because there are so many things we just don’t think about that goes into supporting an ICE engine. We tend to just think about the battery because that’s the biggest single cost item. GM stated recently that in the last 5 years the battery prices have been cut in half which is pretty incredible. . . .


As to being more profitable, maybe thinking of Tesla as a model, I would like to see just how much taxpayer subsidies, on a local-state-national level, are provided to the EV industry. Is everyone going to switch to EV's because they are more effective-efficient-economical, or because the gov't manipulates the market?
'If' everyone eventually ends up in an EV, it will be because government destroyed the internal combustion market and forced people into vehicles they didn't want by offering up ridiculous subsidies and rebates. EV's cannot stand on their own today without government meddling, and that's the simple reality of it.
I’m pretty sure we still spend 20 Billion a year on petroleum subsidies so there’s that. ICE will go away because all the money is being poured into electric so the ICE vehicle will eventually fall behind the electric vehicle in just about every measurable way. When this will happen who knows but it’s undeniable that it will happen. Just like everything follow the money.
 
Posts: 4079 | Registered: January 25, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of mcrimm
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What about hybrids? Our daughter just bought a Toyota Highlander Hybrid that gets something like 35 MPG. Our comparable SUV gets 22 MPG. That’s a 59% improvement for a small upcharge. And....no plug-in thingy.



I'm sorry if I hurt you feelings when I called you stupid - I thought you already knew - Unknown
...................................
When you have no future, you live in the past. " Sycamore Row" by John Grisham
 
Posts: 4299 | Location: Saddlebrooke, Arizona | Registered: December 24, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unmanned Writer
Picture of LS1 GTO
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyker:
quote:
Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
My mind is wandering towards Judge Dredd.

Mmmmmm, rat burgers. Big Grin


Wasn't that Demolition Man?


Whoops, yes, you are correct.






Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.



"If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go" Will Rogers

The definition of the words we used, carry a meaning of their own...



 
Posts: 14299 | Location: It was Lat: 33.xxxx Lon: 44.xxxx now it's CA :( | Registered: March 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
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quote:
Originally posted by 1s1k:. . . I’m pretty sure we still spend 20 Billion a year on petroleum subsidies so there’s that. ICE will go away because all the money is being poured into electric so the ICE vehicle will eventually fall behind the electric vehicle in just about every measurable way. When this will happen who knows but it’s undeniable that it will happen. Just like everything follow the money.


As per Maggie Thatcher, what happens when you run out of other people's money to spend.




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think there are parallel challenges to full adoption of all EVs.

On the EV side, the technology will improve to the point that EV are nearly identical to ICE. Will that be 2035? Who knows.

On the power generation side, like others have mentioned, where is all this power going to come from? Natural gas? Remember, all that fracking you're opposed to? Well, it produces a metric crap ton of NGL. I like the Lawrence Livermore Lab chart posted earlier. You simply cannot build more power plants or PV, wind or hydro to make up for the loss of fossil fuels. That will take decades and be kind of pricey. I hear no serious mention on increasing nuclear output (that's my preference).

My guess is that many of these mandates get pushed, but not before hundreds of billions of taxpayer $$$ get spread around to the "right" people.


P229
 
Posts: 3988 | Location: Sacramento, CA | Registered: November 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Savor the limelight
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quote:
Originally posted by 1s1k:. . .
We tend to just think about the battery because that’s the biggest single cost item. GM stated recently that in the last 5 years the battery prices have been cut in half which is pretty incredible. . . .

I think about the battery because current known reserves of the raw materials that go into the battery fall incredibly short of the amounts needed to make all these all EVs in the next 10-20 year wishes come true.
 
Posts: 12217 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Funny Man
Picture of TXJIM
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quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola:
Half the bullshit you EV guys are shoveling doesn’t even fucking exist. 500 mile range, 5 minute charge? Who the fuck are you kidding? Earlier it was swappable batteries. Yea ok. Some serious pretend game going on. You guys act like massive improvements are guaranteed when dealing with tech.

Some magic battery that you read is right there on the cusp of being made. Smaller, holds more charge, made out of clay and copper wire, takes a full charge faster than it takes to fill your tank. What’s the plan when this battery doesn’t actually turn out to exist? We just keep outlawing shit that works because somehow magically that will change the psychics?

What don’t we just play dress up instead if we are going to pretend as hard as you guys are. It’s like hope is your religion. I hope we figure out the way to increase electrical power output of an overstrained system, I hope we figure out the infrastructure, I hope the next battery is a shit ton better, I hope I hope I hope.



The guy who is credited with inventing the current lithium Ion battery in 1979 has published research for a glass based solid state battery, he is 97 years old and still doing battery research. Several companies like IBM, VW, Daimler, Panasonic and many others have working proof of concept and they are pumping billions into commercializing the technology so yeah, I am sure it will never happen Roll Eyes


______________________________
“I'd like to know why well-educated idiots keep apologizing for lazy and complaining people who think the world owes them a living.”
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Posts: 7093 | Location: Austin, TX | Registered: June 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
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quote:
Originally posted by Russ59: . . . My guess is that many of these mandates get pushed, but not before hundreds of billions of taxpayer $$$ get spread around to the "right" people.


That's another bullseye.

Curious, maybe connected. There was a time members of congress were exempt from insider trading laws. Then their exemption was cancelled. But then, something like the feds wouldn't be pursuing such matters. (Kind of like having a posted speed limit sign, then telling the drivers there would never be any cops enforcing it).

I mention this as I read that Pelosi's husband is sitting quite fat on Tesla stock. Hmmmm.




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Republican in training
Picture of DonDraper
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quote:
Originally posted by RAMIUS:
Uh...do they really want to tangle with Tesla?

Are they trying to destroy themselves?

Tesla will be just any other car soon. VW for example (who technically started making electric cars in the '70's) is already all in with electric cars. I think their target date is 2026.


--------------------
I like Sigs and HK's, and maybe Glocks
 
Posts: 2289 | Location: SC | Registered: March 16, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Savor the limelight
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by TXJIM:
The guy who is credited with inventing the current lithium Ion battery in 1979 has published research for a glass based solid state battery, he is 97 years old and still doing battery research. Several companies like IBM, VW, Daimler, Panasonic and many others have working proof of concept and they are pumping billions into commercializing the technology so yeah, I am sure it will never happen Roll Eyes

But will it be good enough? Wink
 
Posts: 12217 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
quote:
Originally posted by 1s1k:. . .
We tend to just think about the battery because that’s the biggest single cost item. GM stated recently that in the last 5 years the battery prices have been cut in half which is pretty incredible. . . .

I think about the battery because current known reserves of the raw materials that go into the battery fall incredibly short of the amounts needed to make all these all EVs in the next 10-20 year wishes come true.
That’s my number one concern. I’m sure the grid has been studied but there’s no way to know what raw materials exist in the world. I personally don’t think EV will be any better for the environment but it’s going that way no matter what any of us think.
 
Posts: 4079 | Registered: January 25, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My other Sig
is a Steyr.
Picture of .38supersig
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So... the batteries aren't here. The chargers aren't there. Everybody that wants a quick charger will scream that the batteries didn't last long enough.
Electric cars are 100+ years old with the same issues of today.

The longest a set of batteries have lasted is about 180+ years (so far).

GM has their biggest push so the EPA and emission regulations will get off of their corporate asses and only be the power company's problem.
The added plus is they can put everything on a skateboard and tack on whatever car they want.



 
Posts: 9619 | Location: Somewhere looking for ammo that nobody has at a place I haven't been to for a pistol I couldn't live without... | Registered: December 02, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by TXJIM:

What don’t we just play dress up instead if we are going to pretend as hard as you guys are. It’s like hope is your religion. I hope we figure out the way to increase electrical power output of an overstrained system, I hope we figure out the infrastructure, I hope the next battery is a shit ton better, I hope I hope I hope.



I don’t see a single person talking hope. I do see people talking about things that the people in the know have said will happen. Who knows the dramatic improvement in batteries may not happen anytime soon but I wouldn’t bet against it. Current battery technology is plenty good right now for the second vehicle in most households which is a shit ton of vehicles.

Fast forward 20 years when the real mandates come into play and you would have to be just ignoring technology to think batteries won’t be massively better. They have taken huge leaps in the last 10 years with zero mandates, no where near the money investments and really only one company pushing the technology. Now add ridiculous mandates a metric shit ton of money along with every single manufacturer competing for the best battery and it’s pretty obvious what’s going to happen.
 
Posts: 4079 | Registered: January 25, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Age Quod Agis
Picture of ArtieS
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If they can build a vehicle that is equal or better in all regards to the ICE truck I drive now, I will happily buy one. It needs to have similar capabilities, fast recharge, equivalent reliability, safety, and convenience. It needs to be priced competitively, and have equal or lower operating costs.

If they can achieve these things, why wouldn't I want one? I don't understand the resistance to progress on this front. I have been following electric vehicles since they were first proposed in the '70s with conversion kits for light trucks with the bed full of batteries. They were shit, but they proved the concept.

Teslas are extraordinary vehicles. Expensive, but they show what can be done with today's technology, and are vey impressive. 15 more years of development by major manufacturers will yield vehicles superior to, and cheaper than the Tesla.

I look forward to a truck with excess of 600 HP, tuned for offroad to each wheel, without the complexity of the thousands of moving parts in my current truck. If industry can nail the recharge time and battery issues, I think it would be a fantastic vehicle.



"I vowed to myself to fight against evil more completely and more wholeheartedly than I ever did before. . . . That’s the only way to pay back part of that vast debt, to live up to and try to fulfill that tremendous obligation."

Alfred Hornik, Sunday, December 2, 1945 to his family, on his continuing duty to others for surviving WW II.
 
Posts: 13086 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: November 02, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Void Where Prohibited
Picture of WaterburyBob
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EVs will be viable in 30 years when we generate electricity from nuclear fusion.

Funny how nuclear fusion has been just 30 years away since I was a kid in the 60's ...



"If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards
 
Posts: 16759 | Location: Under the Boot of Tyranny in Connectistan | Registered: February 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
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Besides the costs of electricity generation, there are also the costs of mining and smelting the metals, many of which come from countries that are hostile to us, in states of civil war or other political instability, or any or all of those. These things are not going to "save the planet." Roll Eyes



The thing that really rankles me is being forced into them. If evolving technology and natural market forces one day supplant fossil fuel, OK, but the government should not be in the business of actively destroying them without trying to find a viable substitute.
 
Posts: 29173 | Location: Johnson City, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^^^I love this bit from Carlin. This is quite thought provoking.





 
Posts: 5271 | Location: WI | Registered: July 02, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of NMPinNYC
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Japan has no petroleum, so they are pushing electric vehicles. The U.S.A. has 100 years of oil, so we are fine with gasoline engines. Convince me we need to follow Japan's lead.


Best regards,
Nick.

NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor
 
Posts: 712 | Location: Back in northern NJ/NY State Catskills | Registered: April 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
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My current (pun intended) driving needs (driving to work around 100 miles/week, plus errands around town) actually could almost all be met by an EV. But nobody has any business telling me what I need.
 
Posts: 29173 | Location: Johnson City, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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