We have dozens of small independent pizza places here. There's no comparison between those pizzas and any of the chains.
I haven't had pizza from a chain in over 40 years; there's no reason for that here.

I’m generally with tatortodd on style. Antico is the big Neapolitan shop in the ATL, but Campania in Alpharetta is really good.

But last week I had John’s of Bleeker. That was mighty, mighty fine NYC pizza.

My preference in the local is Alessios, but our local Papa John’s isn’t horrendous when the kids are home.

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:
We have dozens of small independent pizza places here. There's no comparison between those pizzas and any of the chains.
I haven't had pizza from a chain in over 40 years; there's no reason for that here.

And you won't do much better than Pepe's in New Haven!

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Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:


Frankly, if you've never had Neapolitan pizza from a certified pizza maker then you don't know what pizza SHOULD taste like.

Rome and Sicily would like to have a word...

They can run their mouth like a New Yorker too, but at the end of the day they're not UNESCO world heritage for pizza either. Besides, the point of certified Neapolitan is they make it the old world way AND untethers it from geography.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

They can run their mouth like a New Yorker too, but at the end of the day they're not UNESCO world heritage for pizza either. Besides, the point of certified Neapolitan is they make it the old world way AND untethers it from geography.

LOL, got it...certified!

I no longer buy fast food, not since all these establishments have lost their freaking minds. There's a Johnny's Pizza close by an the wife and I treat ourselves to it every once in a while.

But, all the chains can go fish. They go the last of my money in 2022. I'm done for good and all.

Good. Serves them right for what they did to the founder. Genuine stuff of the American dream until the corporation decided to screw him over.

Honestly could not tell you last time I had PJ and if there is even one in my town. There is a Dominoes a block away that is tolerable and that franchisee hires a lot of local kids. There is an actual sit down pizza place in town and the owner is a neighbor 6 houses away. I patronise each about equally. Pizza take out or sit down is not high on my list to begin with when I think of going out.

I do not feel like paying $18-20 for a mediocre pizza. When Papa John's was more competitive on price it was worth getting an average pizza for an average price. I have zero desire to pay high quality price for an inferior product. I imagine a lot of people feel the same as me, so the reduction in sales seems like a logical thing to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I do not feel like paying $18-20 for a mediocre pizza. When Papa John's was more competitive on price it was worth getting an average pizza for an average price. I have zero desire to pay high quality price for an inferior product.

This. There are a number of local pizza joints here whose pizzas are significantly better than Papa Johns at the $18-$20 price range. (That goes for Pizza Hut, Little Ceasars, Dominos, etc. as well.)

For cheap at-home consumption, which used to be the market to which places like PJ/PH/LC/D were aiming, a take and bake pizza from Walmart, Sam's Club, or Aldi is better tasting and anywhere from half to a third of the price of the pizza chains these days, in exchange for you merely getting it and baking it yourself.

Or further along the inexpensive and DIY spectrum, making your own pizza from scratch is quite easy, and uses ~$3-$5 worth of ingredients. It just takes a bit of time, though that mainly consists of passively waiting for the dough to proof. It's about 5 minutes of work in total, just spread out over multiple hours with pauses in between for dough to rise or for the pizza to bake. And it doesn't require any specialized equipment to make a fantastic homemade pizza, though you can kick the quality up a notch or two by investing in things like a pizza stone or a dedicated pizza oven.

I only eat chain place pizza under duress.
My favorites for 20 years have been Italian family owned & operated places.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:
We have dozens of small independent pizza places here. There's no comparison between those pizzas and any of the chains.
I haven't had pizza from a chain in over 40 years; there's no reason for that here.

And you won't do much better than Pepe's in New Haven!

Pepe's is good. I think Sally's is a little better.

Up until last Friday, I'd never had Papa Johns. I was not impressed when I had some at a fundraiser and see no need to have more.

The previous year this same fundraiser had Marcos pizza. Slightly better than PJ's but not something I'd order by choice.

Similar feelings about Dominos, Toppers and Costco pizza.

Not a big fan of pizza that reminds me of cardboard with ketchup on it or that is super soft and doughy.

Our local Pizza Hut closed some years back. I believe there is a Jet's somewhat local but I have not tried it.

Local small chains or mom and pop places that serve tavern style pizza is my preference.

We formerly had a couple of places locally that did coal oven pizza which I also liked.

It's been years, but my only exposure to east coast pizza was at a couple of local spots near joint base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst and don't remember being particularly impressed.

I had "Chicago style" pizza at a spot in Estes Park, CO once about 20 years ago. I swear it was a Tombstone pizza being passed off as fresh.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

They can run their mouth like a New Yorker too, but at the end of the day they're not UNESCO world heritage for pizza either. Besides, the point of certified Neapolitan is they make it the old world way AND untethers it from geography.

LOL, got it...certified!

It focuses on pizza making process and gets rid of:

the lame assed location argument. For example, you can only get the dough this way because of the local water. Meanwhile the water table is 20 something feet deep and for decades everybody pissed and crapped into a septic tanks 10' deep. That's some special water

we're from NYC so we're the most Italian nonsense. Italy wasn't even a unified country until 1871 and Queen Margherita didn't have margherita pizza in Naples until 1891 (i.e. when it began to be famous). Meanwhile, mass immigration to US started in 1880 and tapered off by 1910. Not really much old world family tradition in 19 years is there? The other Italian faux fact was 50% of Italians ended up there, but that was only true until '50s when they dispersed across US pursuing the post war American dream.

BTW, I worked in NYC back in the late 90s so I heard all of the above nonsense first hand. NY style pizza is good but it isn't authentic and isn't the only good style of pizza.

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

quote:

Originally posted by jed7s9b:
Good. Serves them right for what they did to the founder. Genuine stuff of the American dream until the corporation decided to screw him over.

And all because of basketball. Since I know the story well I'm going to ramble.

PJ's founder, John Schnatter, is from my hometown and he grew up 3 doors down from me. I can look out my window right now and see his old house. John is 10 years younger than me and he took over many teenage chores for my dad that I used to do. John went to college at Ball State and dad loaned him his p-up several times to move furniture back and forth - John was a good kid, smart, ambitious and hard working.

John's dad was county prosecutor and owned a beer bar w/pool tables and arcade games in a run down strip center just down the street from my fruit stand. John was a hustler and had worked part time for Ball State pizza place and then summers he worked for a renowned local place, Rocky's. He learned the business by doing it and the food cost of a dime to retail of a dollar appealed to him.

I supplied onions and green peppers for PJ and traded him Christmas trees for pizza. The dominoes fell in place and PJ expanded rapidly with many of John's friends buying franchises, in the early days you got territories to develop and some of the guys ended up with a handful of stores and they all made money. When PJ went public dad and I were on ground floor and I still have the stock and it has done well.

Where the trouble started was John was asked by gop Ky governor, Matt Bevin, to sit on university of Louisville's board of directors because spending was out of control. Rick Pitino was basketball coach and Tom Jurich was athletic director. They had big plans and spared no expense implementing them - prior to becoming a board member PJ was all in on UofL - John paid 4 million for naming rights for UofLs new football stadium - Papa John's Cardinal Stadium

The businessman in John came out when the board started going through spending and identified perceived waste - maybe it was waste, maybe it wasn't - UofL was successful and basball, football and basketball mens&womens were all ranked and thriving. Got to spend money to make money.

About that time there was a stripper/escorts in the athletic dorm scandal and some cash scandals and boom - Pitino and Jurich were fired and John was the UofL board of director's mouthpiece.

Pitino was in Limbo for a few years, now doing well at St Johns. Not sure what happened to Jurich. One of the escorts wrote a book

Cant prove it was an ambush but John was interviewed by a New York station and for some reason the talk turned to racism - the area of southern Indiana we grew up in has numerous sundown communities, as in if you are black don't let the sun set on you in this community. John mentioned that and then he quoted a statement that had the n word in it, seems like the quote was from Col Sanders but regardless the whole thing was taken out of context and innocent.

As I recall the interview just sat there for a couple months and then it blew up, went viral and John was burned at the stake. Most figured it was revenge served cold for the Pitino skirmish. John was treated very unfairly.

Young John


grand opening in converted broom closet

I used to like their pizza and I ordered one this year and it was a doughy mess. Wont eat there again!!

16” sausage and pepperoni with extra cheese is $12.50 at WaWa. I can’t stand Dominos and Marcos is ok. I like Jets, but it’s expensive.