Like others have said.
Weight and hp are the biggest factors. You have to have complex emissions systems, amenities, and structural integrity for safety.

I have always heard the turbo motors get terrible real world mileage but that’s crazy even for city driving.

We took a trip in our Challenger which was mostly highway and I was a little surprised With the results of a big heavy car with 500hp. If anyone wants to do the math my average speed was up there for a 3 1/2 hour trip with one stop.

After pulling off the highway so our puppy could go to the bathroom and watching her fart around for a while there might have been a couple quick blasts to get my average speed back up there which surely hurt the fuel mileage but I was happy with the results.

free image upload

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
I mean if you just don't care about surviving a car crash and just want maximum mpg, get a scooter or motorcycle.

I drive a extended wheel base Expedition that is lifted, 33” tires, and full steel skid plates.
Not worried about mpg personally.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
Like others have said.
Weight and hp are the biggest factors. You have to have complex emissions systems, amenities, and structural integrity for safety.

Which is why I included my Mustang which is only about 100lbs lighter than the EcoSport and has 15 less horsepower but is 130% larger of a motor and beat the EcoSport in mog.

I do realize there are reasons why we have stifled the mpg. Just trying to think of other technologies we have done the same to.


I guess I should have phrased the question more along the lines of what technology have we stifled due to other trade offs over the last 30 years?

This is definitely part of it.

quote:

The smaller cars today (like Civics, etc) are heavier and larger ...

The original 1976 Honda Accord is about the same size as today's Honda Fit.

When Honda decided to bring back the tiny CRX as a CR-Z hybrid the end result was underwhelming and a failure. With modern technology Honda managed to make a safer car but one that wasn’t any better on performance or mpg.

I'll also go the other direction here.
My 2004 dodge ram with the 4.7 V8 would get around 12 mpg around town.
My 2017 ram with the bigger 5.7 V8 hemi gets 17.5+.

If I stay close to the speed limit I can get close to 23 mph on the highway. My last trip out I-10 to MS I got 20.8 with the cruise set at 80 mph.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
This is definitely part of it.

quote:

The smaller cars today (like Civics, etc) are heavier and larger ...

The original 1976 Honda Accord is about the same size as today's Honda Fit.

And a 2020 Honda Fit weighs about 300 pounds more.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
The smaller cars today (like Civics, etc) are heavier and larger and have more HP than the same make and models from 20 or 30 years ago. Safety standards have gotten more stringent, thus requiring the size/weight increase. Not to mention the added weight of all of the electronic gadgets, safety systems and other amenities that people want on their cars today. Couple that with customer demands for more and more horsepower and youre just not going to see mileage increases.

My mechanical engineer family member who works for one of the automakers in powertrain systems recently told me the internal combustion engine barring some unforseen technological discovery is pretty much tapped out for now when it comes to large gains in fuel mileage for the reasons above.

https://www.autotrader.com/car...-1980s-models-241487

my 2015 civic is around 1000 lbs heavier than the 13 Cooper S it replaced,

it is about the same size as the 1997 camry we had,,

and gets better mileage than both,,

those older Civics, and CRX's were very light, and small,

My 2018 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab has averaged 20.6mpg over the 9400 miles I’ve driven it thus far. I’ve never had a full size pickup that consistently did better than 16mpg before.

Don't forget the EPA also changed the mpg calculation in the early 2000s and every cars mpg rating dropped by like 20% overnight.

I believe it depends on the car you choose. Many designers have opted for more performance than the older economy models had.

When I grew up muscle cars were lucky to get 12mpg. I have a 6L v8 around 380hp, and because of transmission gearing and engine features I consistently get 20-22 average, and as high as 25 on trips. That's better than I found 20 or 40 years ago. And yes, we're paying for this in the prices today.

My '92 Honda Accord would get 30MPH all day, regardless of how long / short you drove it. Maybe could stretch it to 32 on the HWY if not driving like a demon, so I got 30 most of the time...

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
Don't forget the EPA also changed the mpg calculation in the early 2000s and every cars mpg rating dropped by like 20% overnight.

How can you change math?

Miles / Gallons = MPG

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
Maybe this is a slight thread drift, if so pardon me.

100% Pure Gas vs 10% ethanol crap gasoline aka E10 fuel.

I'm lucky to live where we have tons of stations selling 100% Pure Gas, no ethanol.

It usually costs about 10% more per gallon, but it gives 10% more MPG than the ethanol crap.

My vehicles run smoother and better and are more responsive with Pure Gas than when ethanol gas is in the tank, not to mention the havoc ethanol crap gas causes.

I got 100% Pure Gas, no ethanol, last week for $2.19 per gallon, and that's Conoco/Phillips Top Tier fuel. For $2.19 per gallon I just won't buy the $2.08 gallon E10 ethanol crap fuel.

That 10% more MPG efficiency gives me roughly 45-50 miles-ish more tank range.

That's great, but not an option here. The nearest place that sells pure gasoline is more than 50 miles away from my home, so there is no value in driving that far to get it.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
Maybe this is a slight thread drift, if so pardon me.

100% Pure Gas vs 10% ethanol crap gasoline aka E10 fuel.

I'm lucky to live where we have tons of stations selling 100% Pure Gas, no ethanol.

It usually costs about 10% more per gallon, but it gives 10% more MPG than the ethanol crap.

My vehicles run smoother and better and are more responsive with Pure Gas than when ethanol gas is in the tank, not to mention the havoc ethanol crap gas causes.

I got 100% Pure Gas, no ethanol, last week for $2.19 per gallon, and that's Conoco/Phillips Top Tier fuel. For $2.19 per gallon I just won't buy the $2.08 gallon E10 ethanol crap fuel.

That 10% more MPG efficiency gives me roughly 45-50 miles-ish more tank range.

That's great, but not an option here. The nearest place that sells pure gasoline is more than 50 miles away from my home, so there is no value in driving that far to get it.

flashguy

Cost can be a factor too.
We have 2 stations that sell it here. I filled up my small engine gas can yesterday and paid $3.59 a gallon for the ethanol free when 10% Ethanol was $2.49.
I use it exclusively in my mower and power washer but can’t afford the extra $1.10 a gallon for the vehicles.

What other technologies, you ask? How long does it take you to get the soap and dirt off using a "water saving" shower head?

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:
I'll also go the other direction here.
My 2004 dodge ram with the 4.7 V8 would get around 12 mpg around town.
My 2017 ram with the bigger 5.7 V8 hemi gets 17.5+.

If I stay close to the speed limit I can get close to 23 mph on the highway. My last trip out I-10 to MS I got 20.8 with the cruise set at 80 mph.

I too have a 2003 Dodge Durango R/T with the 5.9 Liter and only get about 12mpg city and 16 highway. However what gives the better MPG for trucks and SUVs of today is the transmission. They have 8 or even 10 speed automatic transmissions versus my 4 speed automatic transmission, which help with increase gas mileage. If I were to replace my current transmission with one of the new ones, my current Durango R/T would get much better MPG too not as good as what you are getting but still much better than what I get now. God Bless !!!

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
Don't forget the EPA also changed the mpg calculation in the early 2000s and every cars mpg rating dropped by like 20% overnight.

How can you change math?

Miles / Gallons = MPG

You dont change math, you change scenario.
How many stops per mile, how long at stop, how much weight in car etc.

the space program

50 years ago we were walking and driving on the moon

today, we do not have the ability to put anyone into low earth orbit, let alone go anywhere other than circles

all that technology, all that brain trust and knowledge wasted

A Civic now is the size of an Accord from 20 years ago. I had college buddies with the first Hondas - those things were miniscule and uncomfortable for American men.

And the engines are more powerful. People want more power than those older econoboxes generated. No one makes a 1.5L engine with 100HP or less now.

Shit, I had a VW microbus in 1978 with a 2L engine making about 85 HP. No one would stand for that low-powered thing any more.

Cars, even "economy" cars, are just more capable now.

But I now have a nicely appointed Mazda 6 with a 2.5L engine making 185HP. It gets 32.7 average across all my driving, which is mostly in the city on the highway in rush hour. It will get 37 in light traffic at moderate speeds. Not bad.

No one is stifling mileage technology. People don't want super high mileage cars. They are too small and too underpowered for most people's taste.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
Don't forget the EPA also changed the mpg calculation in the early 2000s and every cars mpg rating dropped by like 20% overnight.

How can you change math?
Miles / Gallons = MPG

Earlier fuel economy ratings were parlayed upon a burn/coast method and minimal load.
Later ratings were based upon constant drivability and maximum load.
Also of note: Ethanol gets 60% of the energy of gasoline of the same volume. You will rarely see an E85 vehicle display E85 fuel economy. They will boast the ratings given by real gasoline.