quote:

Originally posted by rburg:
I've watched the Syrian tank cook off several times, and I don't understand. I would think the tank would have plenty of HE shells. Why did the cook off only go off like powder burning, and not any explosions? Or may be just one mother of all that pretty much levels the tank? One of you tankers please answer.

What you see in the video - the light-brown cylinder with a metallic base, IS the propellant itself. It is surface-hardened plasticised material that can handle the rigours of the loading procedure. However, what it CAN'T handle is a direct flame or jet of hot gases - this happens when any kind of shaped-charge weapon effects the penetration of the hull or is directed down into the turret floor where the carousel is located. What you have seen in the Syrian tank cook-off is all the charges going off at the same time, more or less. It is, of course, a non-survivable event for the crew unless you happen to be sat in the hatch.

Another point is the extreme squalor in the interior conditions of the T-72 turret. And yes, I KNOW it's hard to keep things tidy, but having also spent a deal of time inside AFV's it's easier to keep tidy in the first place than to lose something because it's hidden underneath a pile of shite. Note also the loose belt of co-axial MG rounds, flapping around where it wants. and the dumped empties.....they have to go somewhere, right? They do, on and under the floor treadplates...

I can also advise anybody who has not been inside a Soviet tank that they, not to put too fine a point on in, stink like a one-holer mixed with a leaky gas station. When a friend of mine bought his T-72 here in UK, I advised him to bring along a few cans of air freshener, open all the hatches, and use them all up before getting into to to have look around. He was very glad he did so.

The aroma of an M-84 (Serbian-produced T-72) turret after several days occupation by its Kuwaiti crew is exotic, in a gag-reflex sort of way.

At £3million, how many working versions do they have? And how many have broken down so far? At least with Putin's tins, you can remove them from the immediate area.

I think I'd rather be stationed on one of their state of the art Air Craft Carriers - DOH!!!

quote:

Originally posted by sigamt:
In his haste though, the overalls had slid into the hole and he ended up crapping in the collar.
What was really funny was as he pulled the overalls up, he managed to flick the log so it smacked him on the back of his head.

How to poop without proper porcelain facilities is something either not taught or not retained well.

Long ago on a guys winter camping trip down in the mountains, we stopped at a Wendy's before hitting the "Wilderness Road", the actual name of it. So the one guy was hungry. He ate a triple with everything. Big mistake. We got to the cabin late, and set about winterizing it. We'd been there before and knew there were no windows or doors. We brought along a big roll of plastic and a couple of nice staplers. One crew set about finding and sawing up firewood, while the other made double pane windows and double thick doors. We'd done this drill before.

All was well until "John Boy" had to poop. He had to go so bad he didn't bother tying his laces, he just pulled them on and ran. We heard his screams of agony as the liquid Wendy's exited. I would have been kind of impolite to laugh, but everyone still in the cabin did chuckle. So in comes the survivor and then the aroma hit us. He'd either stepped in or pooped on his laces. Then drug them back in with him. It was zero or below outside and he didn't put a coat on, no time to waste. So yes, I guess a fair approximation of a Russky tank interior.

quote:

Originally posted by Dzozer:
At £3million, how many working versions do they have? And how many have broken down so far? At least with Putin's tins, you can remove them from the immediate area.

I think I'd rather be stationed on one of their state of the art Air Craft Carriers - DOH!!!

It is widely put about that so far they have the fourteen that have appeared on the various parades.

That's it.

After watching the autoloader video I now understand why they call it the arm chopper.

That new tank turret seems like it has a lot of "shell catching" features.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
I wonder if the sabots might also have fins that enable radar guidance. The photos in the OP link show what might be phased array radar panels on the turret.

Current issued US sabot ammunition (M829A3) is all old school mechanical. They are working on a newer version but it is not radar guided (M829E4, “E” experimental). This link has good descriptions of US M829 rounds (although they call the “A3” “E3” and it hasn’t been experimental in a while.) Read what they say about the E4 round though and note this paragraph:

“The visible difference between the two cartridges is the Ammunition Data Link (ADL) interface rings on the base of the M829E4. The rings serve as the interface between the Abrams’ fire control system and the M829E4. The ADL enables the Abrams’ fire control system to send information to the M829E4.”

Link:

https://www.globalsecurity.org...munitions/m829a1.htm

Not radar guided, but has some electronic component. It’s open to speculation on what it does…

Now, in 2009 the USMC put out an RFP for a programable round to be used in Afghanistan. They wanted it quick so the German DM11 round was chosen and engineers in the US adapted it to our fire control to work in our tanks (I am actually surprised at the detail in the following link.).

https://ndiastorage.blob.core....t/wed17326_Smith.pdf

The DM11 is not a penetrator but more of an antipersonnel/anti-material round. But the technology is similar to what Global Security says the new M829E4 round does… The USMC was the first to use it, and in combat no less.

The DM11:

http://www.deagel.com/Defensiv...M-11_a002683001.aspx

All of our tanks in AFG were equipped with this. It was VERY effective. I think one of the first rounds fired was at a mortar team behind a barricade. It worked well.

Here is a video of the AMP round the Army is testing to show what it can do (Just like the DM11, but the Big Army didn’t just want to buy the DM11, they wanted their own…)



NOTE: Everything posted here is available open source on the internet.

As far as toilets, good for them. We used to just take a milk crate, cut a hole in the bottom and bolt a toilet seat to it. Easy to carry in the bustle rack of the tank (or on the 88) and deploy when needed Now if you have to go inside you just hang your wag bag over the 50 cal storage box and have the TC or loader help you balance yourself

As Tac noted, stay away from T72’s. First time I hopped in one all I smelled was fuel. It had fuel lines running in places where there should not be fuel lines running and I swear everyone of them was leaking. Also as noted the way they store their ammunition is not conductive to crew safety. I’ve looked at Russian tanks quite a bit and I don’t care what they say, I am not impressed. The three tenants of the Abrams design (and NATO allies) are “lethality, maneuverability, and SURVIVABILITY”. And that does not mean the survivability of the vehicle, it means the crew. The Russians could care less (a crewman losing an arm is no big deal). T72’s are notorious for going all “Ronsen Lighter” (to use an old phrase) and popping turrets with secondary explosions when hit. I know some old guys from Gulf One who popped many of them.

Now this is just a good video of a Russian tank getting blown up (not sure if it’s a TOW, I’m not an anti-tank missleman…)



I swear there is more stuff out there on the DM11 (known as the MPHE by USMC tankers...Multi-Purpose High Explosive) than I thought. A video by SYSCOM none the less lol! Like I said, we don't have indoor plumbing in US tanks, we still use the outhouse. But I'm OK with that

Lethality, maneuverability, and survivability trumps where you poop...all day every day.



Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mbinky,

Tanks are awesome, until you see what a 500# (or smaller) air-delivered precision munition can do to them.