I apologize. I did not think a link was needed. I deleted the post.

I was not referring to you, YooperSigs, but rather to the previous poster who makes a habit of not bothering to make the minimal effort to include links.

quote:

► 7/93 6.4/93.6

sigfreund, I don't understand...

The 6.4 is the estimated percentage of adult Americans who are military veterans.
The 7 was an earlier estimate.

Its hard to get volunteers when you perpetuate that this is an evil country, and you are an evil white man, and we hate you and your beliefs but come and sign up and go to some shit hole to defend us and get shot at.

That's a hard sell. My sons friend's dad is active duty and he told them both to find something else to do.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Cultural rot is hyperbole. Many variables here and cultural rot{whatever that is} is not a factor. Economics, a decent labor market and general changes in the military are all factors.

Cultural rot is exactly what the fuck it is. Male aggression has been deemed reprehensible among the indoctrinated youth of today. They have never played war, or cowboys vs indians, or probably even a game of dodgeball or tag for that matter. You also want us to believe that contrary to every other period of economic hardship, military recruitment is down? You're plain wrong!

Parents trying to be their kids friends instead of a parent. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
Dudes want to play pretend woman and vice versa. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
White guys being demonized for being white and male. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
Youth being too fat and too stoned. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
No work ethic because parents never disciplined their kids. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
Being called whatever "ist" is in vogue at the moment. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
Patriotism is basically dead amongst the youth. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.

I'll say that's not a definitive list but you're way off base saying that cultural rot is hyperbole. It's a pandemic and if you choose not to see that, it's because you choose not to.

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
Its hard to get volunteers when you perpetuate that this is an evil country, and you are an evil white man, and we hate you and your beliefs but come and sign up and go to some shit hole to defend us and get shot at.

That's a hard sell...

Not to mention that it’s supposed to be the Department of Defense.
And the ONE country they will not Defend is our own.

quote:

Parents trying to be their kids friends instead of a parent. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
Dudes want to play pretend woman and vice versa. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
White guys being demonized for being white and male. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
Youth being too fat and too stoned. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
No work ethic because parents never disciplined their kids. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
Being called whatever "ist" is in vogue at the moment. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
Patriotism is basically dead amongst the youth. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Really? You must not deal with well mannered kids. You are way to jaded for me. When people think like this they are way too cynical for me. I have much more faith in the youth of America than you.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

Parents trying to be their kids friends instead of a parent. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
Dudes want to play pretend woman and vice versa. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
White guys being demonized for being white and male. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
Youth being too fat and too stoned. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
No work ethic because parents never disciplined their kids. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
Being called whatever "ist" is in vogue at the moment. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.
Patriotism is basically dead amongst the youth. THAT IS CULTURAL ROT.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Really? You must not deal with well mannered kids. You are way to jaded for me. When people think like this they are way too cynical for me. I have much more faith in the youth of America than you.

I don't have a clue what manners have to do with it, but it's more than well documented that most all of what mutedblade said is by and large accurate.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
We differ a lot. I deal with these kids on a daily basis. I base my conclusions upon that.It goes well beyond manners. The military needs to do much more to recruit quality applicants. My neighbor is an Army recruiter and does fine.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Really? You must not deal with well mannered kids. You are way too jaded for me. When people think like this they are way too cynical for me. I have much more faith in the youth of America than you.

Went to Costco for groceries today. Wife wanted a pizza from the food court so I went and stood in line to use the kiosk to order. As I walked up for my turn at the kiosk, a tubby little crotch goblin pushed me out of the way and started pushing on the screen to make an order. Kid was at least 10 years old, possibly older. His mother just said “no, it’s not our turn yet”. Do you think she snatched him up or made him apologize for pushing me? Fuck no. I educated both on the spot. This is what I’m talking about. NO DISCIPLINE!

Cynical? No, just absolutely tired of everyone making excuses for the shitty behavior of the little narcissistic assholes. Also tired of those that put their heads up their asses and pretend that everything is honky dory. That too, is cultural rot.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mutedblade,

This is one of the most military things I've ever read. I hope your son in law was finally able to separate under acceptable conditions.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
^^^ yes.
Personal anecdote: For the last two years the Navy has been attempting to kick out my son-in-law for refusing the clot shot. Now that he has seen and experienced how people with a more conservative leaning are treated, he has put in his papers for separation.
Now that he wants out, they don't want to let him out.

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Really? You must not deal with well mannered kids. You are way too jaded for me. When people think like this they are way too cynical for me. I have much more faith in the youth of America than you.

Cynical? No, just absolutely tired of everyone making excuses for the shitty behavior of the little narcissistic assholes. Also tired of those that put their heads up their asses and pretend that everything is honky dory. That too, is cultural rot.

So one 10 year old idiot cut in line at Costco and you’ve given up on America?

Damn. It’s like customer service, you remember the ones that are bad, but no need to extrapolate to the entire population. There are great kids out there, horrible ones, and a bunch in between. You weren’t a saint at 10, no one is.

Going back to the “cultural rot”, I hire quite a bunch of JMOs (good ones, and I consider them all “kids”). These are the best and brightest we have in the military, and they are desperate to exit. Is it cultural rot that people don’t want to join the military, or a smart choice given that you won’t be supported by our political “leadership”, shipped off to godforsaken countries with only a tenuous link to anything that can benefit the USA, and be paid absolute garbage to be away from home for months at a time?

Heck, the cultural rot might be in the person who expects a different outcome.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
So one 10 year old idiot cut in line at Costco and you’ve given up on America?

You know damn well what the point was. I gave an example of the rot I witness every single time I go out in public, that was just most recent and freshest in my mind. Sure, I walk by 10 other kids that aren't being absolute terrors, but 9 have their noses buried in their phone and could care less about what is happening around them. Get my meaning?

I did 6.5 years in the army (Iraq 2003) and I had enough. The leadership absolutely shit on me every opportunity they had. Promotions? Nope...wrong color or wrong gender. Every E-6 & up promoted was black or hispanic, most of which couldn't form a coherent sentence. It became increasingly clear that O-3/CPT was as high as most white guys were making it unless you had a family connection. None of that is an issue if you are promoting the ones that are true leaders that are good at their job, but it was all in the name of diversity. All of that takes it's toll on those already in the military, but I also gave quite a few examples (again, not a complete list by any means) of why I believe the military recruitment is suffering.

You are correct about the shit pay. There's gonna have to be a massive overhaul to the pay scale soon if the military hopes to recruit anyone much less retain them. I'll add that 2 wars accounting for the better part of 2 decades has created lots of broken/battered soldiers. We talk to our brothers/sisters/cousins and tell them about how shitty we get treated once we exit out of the military. They hear our horror stories about the VA and lack of care. They will then dissuade their kids from perusing a stint in any branch, but especially the army and Marine Corps....at least the ones that haven't been on anti-depressants since puberty.

Any which way you look at it, there's a problem and it's not gonna be fixed anytime soon.

“New York Times advocates for skipping, ‘rethinking’ July 4th celebrations”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdNL8eORm18

Anecdote I heard today from a guy I serve with on my church security team. My church participated in a local Independence Day parade and we’re waiting for it to start and I said “this is hurry up and wait, like the Army”. This led to discussing the military and this guy’s son had recently gotten out of the Army Reserve.

He told me that his son went on a two week Reserve annual training, and then when he came back was sent a bill for all his meals while on it.

I told him I never heard of a unit doing such a shitty thing, he said his son refused to pay it, fought it and then when it came time to reenlist his unit started begging him to stay, but he told them to go screw themselves and left when his enlistment ended.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

...He told me that his son went on a two week Reserve annual training, and then when he came back was sent a bill for all his meals while on it...

Army auditors scrutinize food allowance deductions for field training

By Georgina DiNardo and Davis Winkie
Jul 3, 1:00PM

The Army’s internal auditors will review whether officials at five installations correctly docked meal allowances from soldiers during field training events this year, according to an internal announcement reviewed by Army Times.


At stake is roughly $15 per field day for a typical enlisted soldier, and troops interviewed by Army Times were furious that the service is “counting pennies,” as one characterized the audits.

The audits, conducted by the Army Audit Agency, will check basic allowance for subsistence — or BAS — deductions from May and June at Fort Campbell, Kentucky; Fort Cavazos, Texas; Fort Drum, New York; Fort Carson, Colorado; and Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Washington...

Complete article:

https://www.armytimes.com/news...-for-field-training/

I recently got into the per diem fight against my BN. They said local Soldiers won't get per diem since they can go home to eat. I said that's ridiculous unless we want to make the work day shorter and less efficient.

quote:

troops interviewed by Army Times were furious that the service is “counting pennies,”

Yep. The same service that spent nearly $40 million renaming bases.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:

I recently got into the per diem fight against my BN. They said local Soldiers won't get per diem since they can go home to eat. I said that's ridiculous unless we want to make the work day shorter and less efficient.

That is some Mickey Mouse bullshit right there

And they scratch their heads and wonder why everyone is headed for the exits and they can't bring in replacements?

When my son left Camp Pendleton last year they completely screwed up his travel. Not the first time either, apparently the USMC gets confused that there is more than one Jacksonville even though it is the home of their Infantry school. That one just cost some time. After MOS grad they had jacked up his travel to the point that theysaid they couldn’t fix it. Hmmm. As the day wore on they still couldn’t fix it even though they knew it was their error. It started getting late. I told him to find a BEQ room and let them fix it tomorrow. They wouldn’t authorize a room. They told him he could fucking sleep on the floor in the travel bureau. I was fucking livid and unable to do anything. I told him to get in a cab, get to the airport, and I personally bought him an airline ticket.

I love the military. I loved my time in the military. I encouraged my boy when he wanted to enlist. They aren’t running shit right. I was an O. I was always taught to take care of your troops because they are the backbone of the military and they deserve it. They aren’t asking care of the troops.

As I type this he is deployed overseas and I wouldn’t even be mildly surprised if some of the bs described above happens when he comes home. The MC doesn’t surprise me much anymore.