The "answers" from .gov become comical! How stupid can they be?

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
"Cultural rot" is as good a term as any.

Yup: And a better description than most.

This quotation was from the book This Kind of War about the Korean War by T.R. Fehrenbach, and which was originally published in 1963, before most Americans had even heard of Vietnam which was later blamed for many of the military’s—and the country’s—woes. It was therefore a recognition of the degree to which our culture had begun to decay even in the early 1950s.

“Without its tough spearmen, Hellenic culture would have had nothing to give the world. It would not have lasted long enough. When Greek culture became so sophisticated that its common men would no longer fight to the death, as at Thermopylae, but became devious and clever, a horde of Roman farm boys overran them.” Pg. 471.

And this:
“In 1945, somehow confusing the plumbers with the men who pulled the chain, the public demanded that the Army be changed to conform with decent, liberal society.” Pg. 458.

Rot, decay, or something else, the word used to describe it doesn’t matter, what matters is what it is. ► 7/93

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

“Without its tough spearmen, Hellenic culture would have had nothing to give the world. It would not have lasted long enough. When Greek culture became so sophisticated that its common men would no longer fight to the death, as at Thermopylae, but became devious and clever, a horde of Roman farm boys overran them.” Pg. 471.

Sigfreund, this is directed at the author, and not you. That quote is absolute bullcrap. The Greeks were never a cohesive entity, and therefore succumbed to the demographic advantages that the Romans had (a modern parallel could be Germany vs Russia in WW2, it doesn’t matter how many casualties are inflicted if the enemy can replace them and you can’t).

The Macedonians, who really were the only entity with a prayer of fighting the Romans, acquitted themselves well in Cynoscephalae and Pydna, but lost because of poor command and the inability to field sufficient heavy cavalry to utilize the hammer and anvil tactics that are necessitated by a spear phalanx.

For example, the “Eastern” or Greek Roman Empire lasted about 1000 years more than the Western, which alone throws that simple quote into doubt. Also, a “horde” of Persians overran them in Thermopylae as well…

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
That quote is absolute bullcrap.

I don’t know if you and he looked at the issue the same way but I am certain you know more about ancient Greece than I.

Nevertheless, even if his specific example is incorrect, I agree with the general point that he was trying to make that when a group’s culture changes to the degree that its men are not willing to fight and risk death to defend it, then it is well on the road to the trash heap of history (as someone put it). And by change, I mean rot or decay because if the group never had those men to begin with then it’s unlikely they would have ever been an identifiable group to begin with. Even if we can think of rare exceptions to that generalization, it has usually been true throughout humanity’s history. A few pacifistic groups have existed, but only because they were protected by other groups for their own reasons.

To return to my earlier comments, I believe that what has happened to other great and powerful societies in the past is happening in our country today. The vast majority of men who should be volunteering to defend the nation will not because they can’t be bothered, are afraid, or for some other reason or fanciful excuse such as, “Leave those other people alone, and they’ll leave us alone.” And oh: I know that military service has never been particularly popular and without conscription most men avoid it, but I truly believe that it’s gotten worse in recent years as evidenced by the recruiting difficulties being discussed.

I have over 20. Enlisted. Airborne, infantry, LRS. Became an officer in medical school. Anesthesiologist. Was the last anesthesiologist in Afghanistan in July. Worked on FRSTs. Severed with SF, rangers …. as a doc. I am done fuck it.

Had enough. Had two tours with two years in between and got average rating on my reviews. Guys who stayed home got promoted and better reviews. I am done.

One of my good friends was a recruiter before recently retiring. When they failed to meet mission, they were told "no one leaves until 1800" and then "everyone is working Saturday." Only thing they were told is "you're NCOs! Figure it out."

I wouldn't want my child to join today's military.

I would go for cultural malaise instead.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

To return to my earlier comments, I believe that what has happened to other great and powerful societies in the past is happening in our country today. The vast majority of men who should be volunteering to defend the nation will not because they can’t be bothered, are afraid, or for some other reason or fanciful excuse such as, “Leave those other people alone, and they’ll leave us alone.”

The US has no shortage of brave men willing to serve and die for a just reason. What we have is a failure of the country as a whole to provide the reason to serve.

Would YOU join the military today, to be subject to the whims of the idiocy we have in charge and command?

This just tells me that we had better be ready if our military isn’t.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
What we have is a failure of the country as a whole to provide the reason to serve.

Thank you. That’s my point. The culture that’s rotting isn’t limited to the armed forces; it is the country.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
Would YOU join the military today, to be subject to the whims of the idiocy we have in charge and command?

That’s impossible to know. If I were interested and able to enlist today, I would be a far different man than I actually am.

My father was a career soldier and I spent most of my childhood living on military bases, including about five years in a very insular society as a US Army dependent in France. I was also very interested in military history and general military affairs as I was growing up. At 18 years of age I was convinced I really knew and understood what being a soldier was like and all about. But although I certainly knew far more than most young men my age, I was otherwise extremely ignorant of what my experiences would actually be like. There are few, if any difficult, stressful endeavors that we humans are capable of truly understanding without experiencing them ourselves.

As I posted above, most people who could join the armed forces today simply have no interest in doing so, and, I suspect, most would be repelled by the idea if asked. But that’s not due to things like bizarre woke practices and policies that can’t really be understood unless one is subject to them. I’ll just reiterate that it’s what the culture of this country as a whole has become that affects how men today view military service.

Far too many are destroying their minds with heavy THC use as middle-school kids - it destroys their capacity for rational thought and following a process.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
Far too many are destroying their minds with heavy THC use as middle-school kids - it destroys their capacity for rational thought and following a process.

Maybe as young as middle-school, but maybe high school or college. My son started using marijuana in college. I've seen the devastation as it leads to schizophrenia, mostly in males.

Association between cannabis use disorder and schizophrenia stronger in young males than in females
https://www.cambridge.org/core...41CB8529A326C3641A68

^^^^^^
My thoughts as well. I have read that the brain is still developing into the mid 20's.

To perhaps temper some of my thoughts about the question, a long WSJ article looks at the recruiting problems the forces are having. It’s too long to post, but in summary the article points out that typically many military recruits join because they know military veterans, and now (some of) those veterans are telling them not to join—as we’ve seen expressed here. There are many reasons for that, but large parts are the hardships of service and other reasons to be disillusioned, including one veteran’s response to our being run out of Afghanistan. I didn’t, however, see any mention of the increasing “wokeness” that the forces are demonstrating. That could, of course, just be something that the Journal doesn’t want to muddy the other waters with.

None of that, however, changes my basic opinion about the state of our society, including the fact that an estimated nearly three-quarters of people who could be recruits are ineligible for reasons ranging from obesity to drug use.
And I’ll leave it at that.

LINK

I have no idea how to fix things; my $0.02:
(Background: 22 yrs. as a Mortarman in an Army National Guard Infantry Unit; multiple activations and deployments; definitely NOT the stereotype weekend Bar-B-Q good old boys club unit; (Seriously, I am honored and humbled to serve with such good men and women)

o Retention is TERRIBLE; Finger in the air: >50% ETS even when they are well more than half way to retirement/pension and there are bonus; up to $20k on the table. Last 3-5 years definitely running a deficit

o Recruitment is even worse; I can count on one hand how many new Soldiers I've gotten in the last 5 years (Including the ones coming off active duty)

o From time to time I'm in a position near potential candidates; it is slim pickings, honestly most just are not interested; the $, bonus' education benefits, retirement etc. mean almost nothing to them. Add to that those who say they could not handle someone telling them what to do (ie OSUIT) and a surprising % that basically have no desire for the outdoors/field (I am very honest with everyone: Army/Infantry = Field)

o A lot of guys are burned out from multiple deployments; just about everyone with 10 years+ has been mobilized/deployed more than once; it does get old, wears you down and there IS a price. If you stay or join you WILL be mobilized/deployed.

o Bureaucracy / Red Tape is BAD, I won't go into detail, but it significantly hurts retention

o Given all that is required to do a good job, especially as an Officer or NCO, the toll it takes, the inevitable "Call"; I don't think the compensation is competitive. Not saying $ is the reason to serve; but reality is $ is a necessity and I've known many fine Soldiers who got out and can easily make equal or more money with less time/effort/BS

Thanks for all that, Speedbird.
Well stated, and much of what you mentioned was also discussed in the article I cited.

quote:

Originally posted by Speedbird:
[A]surprising % that basically have no desire for the outdoors/field (I am very honest with everyone: Army/Infantry = Field)

^ That in particular is something I found interesting. A couple of years or so ago I ran across an article that discussed the fact that Black officers were way under-represented by percentages in the Army’s combat arms. I asked an infantry branch veteran about that and his take was that there weren’t many Blacks who had any experience with traditional camping type outdoor activities, and they therefore weren’t accustomed to or happy with spending time in the field as is required in those specialties.

I’m guessing that the number of men in all ethnic or other groups who are willing to do that these days is also not very high.
(And I’m not virtue signaling here: I was always glad that my Army time in the field was very limited, and I actually spent a lot of time on my own backpacking and camping, but that was on my own terms.)

Ultimately, though, and regardless of the good reasons, bad reasons, or no reasons, culture affects what people (in this case, men) are willing to put up with in support of their nation and society. As stated, when the nation doesn’t make it clear why service in the armed forces is critical to its well being and even survival, then it’s not surprising that few of us are willing to do that.

Army spent nearly $40 million to rename 9 bases.

Same Army also told reserve Soldiers there's not money to reimburse them for travel so either come out of pocket or find a unit closer to home.

Same Army also won't give per diem to Soldiers for a couple of days and said "bring a lunch." While that is petty and relatively insignificant in the big picture, Soldiers remember that stuff when it comes time to reenlist. They also remember when their friends and family talk about enlisted. Those of us who are parents will also tell our kids about things like this if they talk about enlisting.

I don't think so. A few patriots withstanding, the military has always been a financial decision. A way to citizenship, to climb out of poverty, get educated etc.

But lets be honest. The pay is shit and the benefits aren't all that great.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:
Oh yeah, this will fix the problem...

Navy Recruiting Increasing Work Week to Six Days to Combat Recruitment Shortages

By: Heather Mongilio
June 28, 2023 6:17 PM

Starting July 8, Navy recruiters’ work week will get a day longer.

Navy Recruiting Command is temporarily extending recruiters’ work week to six days to address recruiting shortages, Lt. Cmdr. Richard Parker, the spokesperson for Recruiting Command told USNI News in an email.

Parker did not have current recruiting numbers, citing a number of ongoing recruiting efforts preventing finalization of the numbers. However, in April, Vice Chief of Naval Operations Lisa Franchetti said the Navy was expected to miss its recruiting goal by 6,000 sailors...

Complete article:

https://news.usni.org/2023/06/...ecruitment-shortages

Idiots

The people making these decisions are most definitely NOT working 6 day weeks.

If anything there should be an incentive for recruiters like a 4 day workweek or extra pay. It’s a shitty job chasing down recruits.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Could the Major have "transitioned" because she could not hack the PT requirements?

What does this refer to?

If it refers to the post before yours, someone please include a link. (As I have requested more than once previously.)
Thanks.