Apparently Toyota's Supra, their shiny relatively new halo sports car, has a problem: intolerable wind buffeting when either or both door windows are left open when driving about. According to Road & Track, it's real bad.

For those of you who aren't aware, Toyota went to BMW to have them engineer and build this car for them. First car to wear the Supra badge in nearly two decades. Naturally, enthusiasts and fans of the original Supra sports cars of years past are rather torn over this; it's really just a highly modified BMW Z4 wearing Toyota badges, etc., etc. Now it's being reported that you can't even drive the car with the door windows down, as you might on a drive in the country on a gloriously sunny day, because the wind buffeting is so bad with this design.

It would seem that BMW and Toyota both missed this seemingly basic issue. I mean who doesn't occasionally roll down their windows when out driving around? In any kind of car? I would guess that BMW just followed exactly what Toyota wanted them to do when they engineered and built the car. And it probably never occurred to Toyota that BMW would miss or ignore such a fundamental thing. Lack of proper project oversight...apparently not just a Chinese thing.

I'm aware that such things happen but its odd, atleast to me, that they farmed out the Supra. I'd have thought that of all things would have been in house.

It's not like they farmed it out to Yugo, it's made by BMW.

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And it probably never occurred to Toyota that BMW would miss or ignore such a fundamental thing. Lack of proper project oversight...apparently not just a Chinese thing.

It wasn’t that Toyota thought that BMW would not miss this basic thing. Nobody ever thought of it and had it as part of the project deliverables.

Is it the basic structure that’s causing the buffeting and will require a new redesign or something they can fix on cars already produced?

It does make me wonder if there’s normally a check box for driving with the windows down.

Sounds like a design issue. Did Toyota or BMW design the car?

That car is a disaster all around. First off, it's butt ugly (fake vents, really?). Second of all, they allegedly tried to target the Porsche Cayman with this thing. Huh? What potential Cayman buyer is going to shop this Toyota BMW? No manual transmission, hideous design, way overpriced. Would never compete with a Cayman on its best day.

Not to mention, the 90s Supra was more Corvette than Cayman. It just makes no sense at all to resurrect the Supra name and slap it on a BMW to target a Porsche. Proof that even a company like Toyota has its fair share of clueless idiots making important decisions.

I know firsthand that in a Corolla, a Rav4, and a Tundra you can't drive with just the 2 back door windows down because of the buffeting.

It seems to me that this is an issue with a lot of newer cars.
I think they just expect people to use the vehicle's climate control and not open the windows while moving.

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Originally posted by mark60:
I know firsthand that in a Corolla, a Rav4, and a Tundra you can't drive with just the 2 back door windows down because of the buffeting.

Every sedan and 4 door truck I’ve ever had is the same way. Non issue.

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Originally posted by mark60:
I know firsthand that in a Corolla, a Rav4, and a Tundra you can't drive with just the 2 back door windows down because of the buffeting.

That's most vehicles. My Sierra is horrible with just the back windows down. Wifes terrain isn't much better.

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Originally posted by monoblok:

I mean who doesn't occasionally roll down their windows when out driving around? In any kind of car?

I don't. Where I live it's too humid and hot for that, or it's too cold. If we get any kind of in between, that's moonroof turf.

I read auto news every day of the year so knew all about this car before it even hit the market. Toyo really fucked the initial buyers (2020 model) as the 20201 has a bunch more HP and a mild TQ bump. No manual either so it took it off my radar immediately. No manual no sale for me.

Also the car guys don't call it the Supra, they call it the Poopra. A Supra it is not. I know Toyo didn't have a current inline 6 but geez farm the whole thing out to BMW when they have their own Gazoo racing department is just stupid. The car is a failure sales wise. I know someone who was able to buy a leftover 2020 model on the cheap.

Hell I had my money in hand for a Yaris GR-4. Toyo USA even queried our market about the car. I forget how many signatures we had to bring it over, a lot. There is a base version and then the uptrim with diffs front and rear. It's a homologation rally car. The execs at Toyo USA declined, Japan was offering. That was it for me and Toyo. I was pretty pissed. 2800 lbs, front and rear diffs, 3 drive modes, turbo inline 3. Amazing machine, would have been mid to high 30k range. Quick, AWD, 6MT, small, and most importantly, light weight. Would have been the best car ever delivered here in the STI/EVO/Golf R class and Toyo USA mucked it. Not interest in anything Toyo now.

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Originally posted by snidera:

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Originally posted by mark60:
I know firsthand that in a Corolla, a Rav4, and a Tundra you can't drive with just the 2 back door windows down because of the buffeting.

That's most vehicles. My Sierra is horrible with just the back windows down. Wifes terrain isn't much better.

In my RAM 1500, so long as you crack the sliding rear window in the cab as well (it's power operated), you can drive with the rear windows open.

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And it probably never occurred to Toyota that BMW would miss or ignore such a fundamental thing. Lack of proper project oversight...apparently not just a Chinese thing.

Our Cayman did the exact same thing until adding a couple tiny disrupters in place of plastic trim behind mirrors. So, not just BMW or Toyota.

My Jeep Grand Cherokee, if I make the mistake of rolling down the rear windows before the fronts, will badly-buffet, too. I'm pretty certain my Chevy TrailBlazer and CR-V both did it, too. But front windows, alone, were never a problem.

Don't auto manufacturers normally do wind tunnel tests? This sounds like a pretty serious design flaw on a two-door sporty car.

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Originally posted by AirmanJeff:
That car is a disaster all around. First off, it's butt ugly (fake vents, really?). Second of all, they allegedly tried to target the Porsche Cayman with this thing. Huh? What potential Cayman buyer is going to shop this Toyota BMW? No manual transmission, hideous design, way overpriced. Would never compete with a Cayman on its best day.

Not to mention, the 90s Supra was more Corvette than Cayman. It just makes no sense at all to resurrect the Supra name and slap it on a BMW to target a Porsche. Proof that even a company like Toyota has its fair share of clueless idiots making important decisions.

Well said.

After years of waiting...BITTER DISAPPOINTMENT as Toyota releases its new “Supra”
https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...260098954#7260098954

Yes. As a Supra MK III 5-speed manual (Non turbo) sport roof/targa top owner I am absolutely disgusted and disappointed in Toyota for making us wait years only to rebadge/rebody a Z4 THEN TAKE AWAY THE MANUAL OPTION. It’s like they wanted to fail.

My thoughts when it first released. We had a thread on it. I finally got to sit in one a few months ago. Felt nothing like my old Supra. No back seat, no manual, no targa, no style. It felt nothing like my old Supra. It doesn’t have a Toyota engine. The interior screams Z4. Which is disappointing to say the least.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...090071254#8090071254

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Originally posted by AirmanJeff:
Second of all, they allegedly tried to target the Porsche Cayman with this thing. Huh?

There are some absolutes in life: not eating yellow snow, don’t fight land wars in Asia, and not targeting the Porsche Cayman is probably a solid #3.

The combination of brand loyalty to Porsche and the sheer balance and experience of the Cayman is damn near impossible to overcome. There’s probably only 3 brands that could realistically try to sway the loyalty, but they don’t make cars in that price range, and of course that still leaves the challenge of engineering a car that can take on the Cayman (the brands are Aston Martin, Ferrari and Lamborghini. I don’t see a Porsche buyer hopping out of a Cayman to get into a Toyota/BMW/MB, with very minor exceptions)

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It's not like they farmed it out to Yugo, it's made by BMW.

That's not saying much. Rod bearings on M3s and fuel pumps on V12s come to mind.

I think that the wind buffeting with the windows open affects most new cars in my experience. I've been told that it is all about the aero and fuel economy. The EPA testing for fuel economy is obviously important to the manufacturers, so they use every trick possible to increase it. Having the windows up makes the aero better and the fuel mileage higher. I'm guessing they don't don't do any testing with the windows down.

From what I have read, Toyota could not commit the funds required to make a business case for bringing back the Supra (sales of the original generations were not really all that high for a manufacturer as large as Toyota). The only way it made economic sense was to have a partner. BMW wasn't sure it wanted to do another two seat roadster (sales of the previous generation Z4 were not all that great either). Put the two companies together and it made more economic sense. BMW had the capacity and more recent previous experience building two seat sports cars, where Toyota did not. The combination made sense for both companies.

I agree with reloader-1 that neither the Z4 or the Supra will do much to impact the Boxster/Cayman. While they all have two seats, the Porsche is in a whole different realm in handling/feel/heritage/brand loyalty.

Both make great vehicles, and I have had many of both over the years, The old adage is that BMW is a sedan manufacturer that builds some sports cars, where as Porsche is a sports car manufacturer that also builds SUVs and sedans. In my experience, that is an apt description of the differences.

My 2013 BMW 328i had a bad buffet. We didn't have to be going that fast either for it to happen. I wish I knew why it happened.