quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
PASig, you will never find me speaking that way publicly about my wife.

Just something for you to consider.

I realize that I came across as too harsh on her and updated the title. But I still am worried for my kids here with some of these childhood diseases that have been under control or eradicated for many years.

Please lock thread if you see fit.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
That's what I told her, we should not be skipping these ones that are 70+ years proven.

Big problem with this line of thinking: while there may have been certain specific vaccines that have been around for many decades, the version they give today is not the version they gave 50 years ago. I don't the medical industry at large, anymore, when it comes to things like this.

To be clear, I support your wife's decision but you two really should have talked about your stance together, preferably before appointment next time.

Note that getting sick helps exercise and strengthens the immune system. Many of use went through childhood disease such as mump, chicken pox, and the measles. Most likely our immune system is stronger than those that had the MMR and other vaccines. As an adult I have only been sick twice, both times the flu when my immune system was down because of stress. Then I was given the Covid vax, a year later I had Covid. Immediately after Covid I had the flu and then throat cancer. Non smoker, non drinker, very healthy. Went through radiation therapy, and appear to be okay so far. I agree that vaccinations are mostly a money making system for big pharma and the "health system".

I know a woman well, who put off the MMR vaccine for her daughter until the day before she entered a particular grade. Well that kid got sick as hell, I don't know if she will every be healthy. In high school, typically her daughter would miss 5 days of school for each day she attended. Daughter had no energy, could not concentrate, etc.

I do not trust Big Pharma at all. I would recommend no vaccines except possibly polio and small pox. Also I would read the label on the vaccine vial just before my kid was vaccinated. You never know what the zealots will do if given a chance.

My ex is a nurse, works in a hospital, and and her kid is very autistic. Most likely the child was given lots of vaccines, whatever the hospital recommended.

OK, now I’m getting a little freaked out with some of the comments. Full disclosure, long ago I worked in basic mechanistic science in research, specifically with allergens and immuno.
I don’t disagree that the COVID situation was a nightmare, but fundamental vaccines save and improve countless lives- vaccines educate your immune system on what dangerous bugs to watch out for.
Yes, choose the attenuated or dead version, space them out if you need to, run titers, but do not presume herd immunity is going to protect your child and choose to do nothing when you have the tools to keep them safe.

I’m not talking about the flu vaccines or the ones that switch around every year..
But DTAP, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, etc…c’mon folks, do your research. These are important.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
That article says they were for rubella - which was dangerous to pregnant women.

Veterinary medicine is usually at least 5 years ahead of human - sometimes 20.

Some drugs for humans take 20 yr of research to get to a phase 1 trial. Differences in safety standards.

quote:

Originally posted by irreverent:
OK, now I’m getting a little freaked out with some of the comments. Full disclosure, long ago I worked in basic mechanistic science in research, specifically with allergens and immuno.
I don’t disagree that the COVID situation was a nightmare, but fundamental vaccines save and improve countless lives- vaccines educate your immune system on what dangerous bugs to watch out for.
Yes, choose the attenuated or dead version, space them out if you need to, run titers, but do not presume herd immunity is going to protect your child and choose to do nothing when you have the tools to keep them safe.

I’m not talking about the flu vaccines or the ones that switch around every year..
But DTAP, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, etc…c’mon folks, do your research. These are important.

Measles and mumps work your immune system for weeks, which appears to be an advantage over a vaccine. Also I believe that the immune system quickly and easily identifies foreign invaders, viral or bacterial/fungal. I would say that the immune system is smart, but not always strong enough.

The consequences for mumps and measles are horrific.

That they wanted to give my daughter a vaccine for an STD, which neither my wife nor I had, at birth, is absurd.

Polio may no longer be needed for much of the world - it’s down to a handful of cases a year, but I can see the argument.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:

Polio may no longer be needed for much of the world - it’s down to a handful of cases a year, but I can see the argument.

It is reported that every case of polio is now caused by the vaccine. Some tiny amount of the virus is able to trigger the disease in some people.

I remember seeing polio victims when I was growing up. My mother was a pediatrician working with disabled children, and her hospital had a few come through. Preventing kids from getting Polio is a worthy goal, though the risks of the prevention need to be understood. Luckily I am well beyond fathering any children these days, so I don't need to be up on the latest everything about childhood vaccination.

A young lady, a new mother, told me that “it is a very difficult decision [to get (or not get) your child vaccinated.]”. My reply was swift: “No, it isn’t.”
She just stood there with a blank look on her face.

It only takes a few hours of reading to see that getting those shots is extremely risky and that the rewards are basically nil.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:

quote:

Originally posted by irreverent:
OK, now I’m getting a little freaked out with some of the comments. Full disclosure, long ago I worked in basic mechanistic science in research, specifically with allergens and immuno.
I don’t disagree that the COVID situation was a nightmare, but fundamental vaccines save and improve countless lives- vaccines educate your immune system on what dangerous bugs to watch out for.
Yes, choose the attenuated or dead version, space them out if you need to, run titers, but do not presume herd immunity is going to protect your child and choose to do nothing when you have the tools to keep them safe.

I’m not talking about the flu vaccines or the ones that switch around every year..
But DTAP, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, etc…c’mon folks, do your research. These are important.

Measles and mumps work your immune system for weeks, which appears to be an advantage over a vaccine. Also I believe that the immune system quickly and easily identifies foreign invaders, viral or bacterial/fungal. I would say that the immune system is smart, but not always strong enough.

That’s not necessarily true..I’d call it intuitive.
Have you taken an immunology course? It’s been years for me, but my recollection is that we have two different types of immunity: one is innate, and one is adaptive.
When a child is born, their immune system is relatively naïve, and they are borrowing their mother’s while their immune system is getting educated on the world. Memory cells in the adaptive immune system keep track of big insults/bugs. We also have toll like receptors that are on certain white cells flowing through the blood (like police officers) and intermittently running into something that triggers them, potentially starting a “cascade” of events. A brand new immune system would not be exposed to everything in time such that they could create those memory cells.
And sometimes an immune system isn’t smart enough or strong enough- that’s where the vaccines come in..and why they were created in the first place..because we were having lots of deaths.. a healthy adult immune system is different from a child’s or from an elderly person, and sometimes our immune system needs a helping hand or a reminder (so to speak) - that is what the vaccines are about, imho.
I do agree that there’s lots of overvaccinating going on, and some vaccines that aren’t necessarily necessary, but what OP was discussing is very important. It’s time to find a pediatrician they both are in tune with, and get those basic vaccines.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
Measles (by itself), polio and whooping cough vaccines are old, established and proven. One would be foolish not to get those. MMR (measles, mumps & rubella/German measles), I always thought, was for adolescence.

Should adults in middle age or those over 60, either group, get any available boosters for those MMR diseases ? Or are the vaccines you get in childhood protect you from those MMR diseases for life ?

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:

Polio may no longer be needed for much of the world - it’s down to a handful of cases a year, but I can see the argument.

It is reported that every case of polio is now caused by the vaccine. Some tiny amount of the virus is able to trigger the disease in some people.

That doesn’t make sense. TMK all cases are in India and Pakistan - and quite rare there.

There are still wild type polio cases out there but rare. The vaccine derived polio cases are from taking the oral polio vaccine (OPV), in which the weakened but still live virus mutates and spreads. There are no cases of polio derived from the injectable inactivated polio vaccine (IPV), because the virus is killed, not weakened.