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USS Gettysburg shoots down F-18 - "friendly fire". Login/Join 
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quote:
Originally posted by AllenInAR:
Just wondering what kind of warning the a/c crew had to the incoming missile(s).

I believe it was the giant flaming ball of fire heading towards them that tipped them off. It happened at night.
 
Posts: 12079 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The RWR can be turned off and I believe in Ward Carroll's video he talks about it being turned off.
quote:
Originally posted by AllenInAR:
Kinda curious...the Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) on US a/c, that's passive, right? It's on all the time? I assume it has a "vocabulary" of ALL radar types, but does it only alert to threat radars?

Just wondering what kind of warning the a/c crew had to the incoming missile(s).
 
Posts: 152 | Location: San Diego, California | Registered: May 24, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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https://x.com/TopGunOptionsHQ/.../1871930461095616691



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Posts: 2034 | Location: AZ | Registered: May 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Serious incident but that X post was hilarious.


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Posts: 16270 | Location: Harrison, AR | Registered: February 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Friendly fire is a thing. All the tech advancements that have happened since Vietnam have lessened the incidences of fratricide but hasn't come close to completely eliminating it. War is a confusing cluster and draped in fog while run by humans; under these parameters accidents WILL happen.

The first Gulf War had several fratricide incidents. A Patriot launcher position misidentified a RAF Tornado as an inbound enemy missile and shot down the plane, killing the two crewmen. Another incident involved a pair of Idaho ANG A10 Warthogs, one piloted by a USAF Lt. Colonel--who apparently wasn't supposed to be in active combat in-theater--firing upon a British mechanized patrol, wounding several soldiers and killing one. There was also a deadly incident involving three Apache attack helicopters misidentifying ground vehicles and ultimately leading to one of the AH-64s firing on a Bradley and a M113 troop carrier, killing two servicemen and wounding others.

And then there's Afghanistan and the Pat Tillman friendly fire debacle. Bad orders are given and after the smoke clears it's the grunts who take the blame while the commanders and decision makers are ducking for cover and pointing their fingers at subordinates.


-MG
 
Posts: 2289 | Location: The commie, rainy side of WA | Registered: April 19, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by AllenInAR:
Serious incident but that X post was hilarious.


I totally agree on both points. I think pilots are hilarious, but when your every day job is what they do you have to be able to take a joke.

My hat is off to those guys who ride those rockets and then do it again in the morning; and a sincere thank you to all of them and the ones who might be reading.

(and I'd say Merry Christmas but I missed it by a minute, so I won't. Season's Greetings)


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Posts: 6593 | Location: Washington | Registered: November 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
half-genius,
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quote:
Originally posted by monoblok:
Friendly fire is a thing. All the tech advancements that have happened since Vietnam have lessened the incidences of fratricide but hasn't come close to completely eliminating it. War is a confusing cluster and draped in fog while run by humans; under these parameters accidents WILL happen.

The first Gulf War had several fratricide incidents. A Patriot launcher position misidentified a RAF Tornado as an inbound enemy missile and shot down the plane, killing the two crewmen. Another incident involved a pair of Idaho ANG A10 Warthogs, one piloted by a USAF Lt. Colonel--who apparently wasn't supposed to be in active combat in-theater--firing upon a British mechanized patrol, wounding several soldiers and killing one. There was also a deadly incident involving three Apache attack helicopters misidentifying ground vehicles and ultimately leading to one of the AH-64s firing on a Bradley and a M113 troop carrier, killing two servicemen and wounding others.

And then there's Afghanistan and the Pat Tillman friendly fire debacle. Bad orders are given and after the smoke clears it's the grunts who take the blame while the commanders and decision makers are ducking for cover and pointing their fingers at subordinates.


GW1 - Gulf War. 26 February 1991: Six British soldiers of the 3rd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, and ten members of the attached Company of Queen's Own Highlanders were killed and further three injured after their [clearly marked with flags] Warrior armoured vehicles were hit by Maverick missiles fired by two U.S. A-10 ground attack aircraft.

By my count that's sixteen.

And this - 'Another incident involved a pair of Idaho ANG A10 Warthogs, one piloted by a USAF Lt. Colonel--who apparently wasn't supposed to be in active combat in-theater--firing upon a British mechanized patrol, wounding several soldiers and killing one.' took place in GW2 - the dead soldier was L/Cpl Mattie Hull.
 
Posts: 11512 | Location: UK, OR, ONT | Registered: July 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Friendly fire, particular involving air-to-ground situations, has always been fraught with complications and problems from the outset. When it comes to brigade-sized and larger exercises with ground & air forces, particularly at the edge of the battlefield, blue-on-blue incidents are identified almost regularly; fortunately these EX are using lasers instead of live-munitions. These friendly-on-friendly incidents shouldn't occur given the number of exercise that lead up to real world ops, but the pace, tempo and ferocity of modern war unfortunately shows they do continue. Cavalry units, Scouts, arty observers, reconnaissance and special operations all are under the constant possibilities of confusion and a deconfliction complication the further into the lines they go. Modern electronic counter-air and spoofing only adds to the complexity of two separate units trying to work with or, avoid each other.

Technology has lessoned these points of friction quite a bit however, with this incident, we're talking about three planes that were within its strike group, positioning themselves to land and was engaged by an escort, which was supposed oversee all air defenses for the group. There's not many of these cruisers left, by my count there's only nine left with four more to decom next year, they've been rode hard and many had various maintenance deferred. All the remaining ships have received modern systems upgrades, what remains to be seen if this was an individual/training issue or, technology issue.
 
Posts: 15216 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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http://archive.gao.gov/t2pbat5/149432.pdf

Report regarding Desert Storm fratricide incident that killed an acquaintance of mine from my battalion.


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Posts: 16270 | Location: Harrison, AR | Registered: February 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by AllenInAR:
http://archive.gao.gov/t2pbat5/149432.pdf

Report regarding Desert Storm fratricide incident that killed an acquaintance of mine from my battalion.


I was in A 1-4 on their left flank but far enough away not to see it. I remember when it happened though.

I casually had met (previously) the av battalion commander who was relieved. The co-pilot gunner in the Apache wasn’t supposes to be in flight operations at that time but wanted to go out for a kill/combat experience. The battalion co let him and this part of the reason he was relieved. Not all details make it in reports.
 
Posts: 1796 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: August 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Augen:

I casually had met (previously) the av battalion commander who was relieved. The co-pilot gunner in the Apache wasn’t supposes to be in flight operations at that time but wanted to go out for a kill/combat experience. The battalion co let him and this part of the reason he was relieved. Not all details make it in reports.


That may be a different incident than 'mine'. The 1-1 AVN Bn Commander decided (against SOP, IIRC) to go out with this flight as a gunner/copilot. He got his grids mixed up, misidentified a Bradley and 113, and shot them both.


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