quote:

Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
1. F/A 18 cannot evade US AA missile, suggesting that AA missiles are superior and would protect against typical threats
2. Carrier protection against fourth-generation fighters is good, with detection, ranging, and deployment of missiles occuring as designed
3. Commmand and control, decision-making, and safeguards against friendly fire are suboptimal.

Yeah, but you shouldn't need to prove all this by shooting down one of your own aircraft......

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:
I can’t wait to get more information about this.

Having been the air warfare commander (AW, radio call sign “Alpha Whiskey”) for task groups I can tell you there is going to be epic levels of fail. Before reaching the AAW missile engagement zone (MEZ), which is a ring around the carrier out to maybe 80-100 miles depending, and is the responsibility of the screening surface ship's, the F18 had to clear the fighter engagements zone (FEZ) which is another defensive ring that starts 10-20 miles outside the MEZ and is the responsibility of the combat air patrol (CAP) which are sets of fighters that are under AW's control and are used to identify and engage any threats in the FEZ as directed by AW. Meanwhile, every contact being tracked or self reporting in the data net is being shared with every unit in the network. Joe sailor can zoom out his display and see every bit of information from platforms 500 miles away. And military IFF is an encrypted system that can only be read by receivers with the correct codes, it’s different from the IFF used by civilian aviation.

Many thanks for that, Sir.

This is plain evidence of gross negligence, not just the flipping of a switch to 'OFF' that ought to have been 'ON'.

CNN is reporting:

“According to two US military officials, the downed fighter jet was not part of the strikes in Yemen.“ Link

And AP is reporting:

“The F/A-18 shot down had just flown off the deck of the USS Harry S. Truman aircraft carrier, Central Command said.“ Link

That can’t be good. Too close for missiles, switched to guns?

Bunch of resumes are getting updated now.

quote:

Having been the air warfare commander (AW, radio call sign “Alpha Whiskey”) for task groups I can tell you there is going to be epic levels of fail. …

So it takes failure all up and down the chain of command to give the order to fire, and not just one traitor/mole? The former is bad enough, the latter frightening.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
IFF does not work in OFF mode....

CORRECT!!! It happened many times in Vietnam.

SpinZone gives us experienced insight into this fuck up. Much appreciated!

Could it just be a case of 'what happens if I press THIS button?'

Does anyone know, or remember, when the last friendly fire incident occurred? My guess is possibly the Vietnam War. I am interested in the historical perspective.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
WTAF is going on with the US Navy this year???

I think they’ve fired more commanders this past year than ever before.

Are things that bad?

Yes, the Navy is in VeRY bad shape. Hegseth or, whomever it will be for SECDEF needs to focus their efforts on getting a competent SECNAV, to put the Navy back on track as every single major program they have are years behind schedule, leadership is highly questionable across the ranks and the conditions of the ships range from poor to highly questionable shape. There's been a variety of pundits/bloggers writing the last 10-years about these situations yet, Congress seems all but mild to uninterested in putting people's feet to the fire.

quote:

Originally posted by uvahawk:
Does anyone know, or remember, when the last friendly fire incident occurred? My guess is possibly the Vietnam War. I am interested in the historical perspective.

There's been many since Vietnam, most egregious was the USS Vincennes downing Iranian Air #655 back in 1988, my understanding is there was still a number of issues to workout with then new Aegis-system. There was also several more recent incidents during Desert Storm and OIF.

Most recently, German Navy Mistakenly Fires Missiles at USAF MQ-9 Over Red Sea earlier this year.

My guess is that Hornet's IFF wasn't working correctly or, the AAW ship (Gettysburg) wasn't cross-checking correctly with the carrier, the E-2 and their own CIC. Those pilots will be sending every one of their bar bills for the rest of their lives, to the Gettysburg's captain from now on.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: corsair,

At least it was a military aircraft with ejection seats and the crew were able to bail out safely, and not some airliner full of hundreds of innocent people. If we can't identify our own aircraft how much more likely would it be to do something like that? Hopefully this is a wakeup call to fix their shit before something like that happens again. Unfreakingbelievable.

quote:

Originally posted by uvahawk:
Does anyone know, or remember, when the last friendly fire incident occurred? My guess is possibly the Vietnam War. I am interested in the historical perspective.

There were a couple incidents during Gulf War II:

https://www.theregister.com/20.../20/patriot_missile/

Navy needs a revamp, pilots are luck to be alive. Hope the incident isn't written off as a "costly
mistake?

It’s not just the Navy. The Marine Corps doesn’t seem like it’s being run by adults either. It’s almost like they turned the branch over to a junior Second LT and said “have fun”

quote:

Originally posted by uvahawk:
Does anyone know, or remember, when the last friendly fire incident occurred?

In his book Crusade: The Untold Story of the Persian Gulf War (the first one) Rick Atkinson discusses several friendly fire incidents. Although I just finished rereading the book I didn’t pay close attention to the total number of Allied personnel killed, but I believe it was more than who were killed by the Iraqis. If not that many, certainly a significant number.

Regardless of how/why this incident occurred, though, it could not possibly have been due to the sort of chaotic circumstances of active ground combat.

^^ A VERY Good Friend of mine, along with ten other US Marines, was killed by friendly fire on January 29, 1991 when their LAV was destroyed by an Anti-Tank Missile during the early hours of the first sustained ground fighting in Desert Storm.

RIP Sergeant Garrett Mongrella, KIA in the Battle of Khafji, Desert Storm. You left us too soon Marine....Godspeed My Good Friend!

Well, that was certainly a career limiting decision.

This reminds me of Iran Air Flight 655, which in 1988 was shot down by a US guided missile cruiser. Not sure if that incident would be considered "friendly fire", but the point is how even with the best protocols in place, mistakes can happen.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
Who or rather WAHT commands the Gettysburg?

If its a CIS person, they're fucked, if it's a weirdo, they just made Admiral.

Commanding Officer USS Gettysburg

A native of Adak, Alaska, CAPT Hodges earned a Bachelor of Science from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1997. He earned a Masters of Engineering Management from Old Dominion University and a Master of Arts in National Security and Strategic Studies from the U.S. naval War College.

At sea, he served as the First Lieutenant in USS STETHEM (DDG 63), Reactor Mechanical Division Officer in USS NIMITZ (CVN 68), Operations Office in USS MCFAUL (DDG 74), and Reactor Training Assistant in USS HARRY S TRUMAN (CVN 75). He completed deployments as Executive Officer and Commanding Officer in USS GRAVELY (DDG 107) and served as Reactor Officer in USS DWIGHT D EISENHOWER (CVN 69). He will assume command of USS GETTYSBURG (CG 64) in February 2023.

Ashore, CAPT Hodges was assigned to the Office of Naval Intelligence as a Surface Anti-Submarine Warfare Analyst; Joint Forces Command as an Observer/Trainer; Commander, Naval Air Force, Atlantic (CNAL) as the Force Reactor Training Assistant; and participated in the Career Intermission Program.

He has earned the Defense Superior Service Medal, Meritorius Service Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, and other personal, unit, and campaign awards.

Hope he knows how to paddle a baidarka.