SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Second officer removed for alleged improper relationship with female colleague on scandal-hit submarine
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| Thank you Very little  |
buddy of mine was on subs out of Kings Bay, said they left with 144 individuals and returned with 72 couples | |||
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Member |
I’ve been watching this thread hoping another boat sailor would pipe in and save me some typing. I spent my entire Navy career riding these things, 3 diesels and 3 nukes so I have a little insight on what could go wrong. My first thought when they started talking about putting females on our boats was, WWRD (what would Rickover do?) The answer was simple, he would have just said no and there would be no more discussion about it. In the Nuclear Sub world, Rickover’s name was spelled with three letters, GOD. But since the scrawny little asshole is dead I guess things have changed. Jimmy 123x, even on the old diesel boats there were two compartments that were not manned underway, the pump room under the control room and the motor room under the maneuvering room. With people working on their Sub qualifications it would not be unusual to see two people going into those compartments, one teaching and one learning. My first Nuke was a stubby little Thresher class boat and I can think of at least 6 places off the top of my head like I mentioned above. As far as the jobs, I can’t really think of anything that a female couldn’t do. This is especially true of Officers since their main purpose in life is to sign things and take the blame if something goes wrong. My concerns would be normal everyday life on the boat. A new female’s day at sea would, like anyone else’s consist of standing watch, working on Ship/Submarine Qualifications, eating and sleeping with maybe a movie or two thrown in. Watch standing would be no problem. As I said before, I can’t think of anything that a female couldn’t do as far as normal watch standing. Ship’s Qualifications would be my main concern. Qualifications are the number one priority to someone new aboard and this requires help from other crew members. As an example, to get checked off on the Main Hydraulic system you have to know the location and purpose of every pump, valve, electrical actuator and any other component of the system, it’s purpose and how to bypass or isolate each component. Multiply this by every fluid, air and electrical system on board. Each system requires you to be signed off on by a Petty Officer and then questioned and signed off by a Chief. There is no way a person can do this without someone helping them. I can hear a female saying, “Petty Officer_________ wouldn’t sign me off on a system because I’m female or so-and-so wouldn’t help me because I’m female”. I can also foresee offerings to trade sexual favors for a signature on the Qual sheet. Possible problems in the Mess Hall could be as simple as sliding in too close to a female and have her complain about it or refusing to sit next to one and being accused of discrimination for that. During a movie that has some skin shots could bring about some remarks that some females might find offensive so there’s another possible problem. As far as berthing quarters go, yes, they would have to be separated from the rest of the crew but there again, is a problem. The messenger (usually the off planesman, E-2 or E-3) would have to enter the female berthing area to wake up someone for the next watch. If they’re a sound sleeper there might have to be some physical contact. Depending on the female, this could go bad for the messenger. My longest run was 120 days and I can’t even imagine going that long having to watch everything I said or did so I wouldn’t offend someone. Sometimes things get a little tense and you might call someone a stupid shit but if you slip up and call a female a stupid bitch I imagine your career might be over. The CO would probably side with the females on complaints of sexual harassment or conduct so he wouldn’t be accused of trying to cover it up. Even a false accusation could end a person’s career. In short, the females would have control of the entire crew’s actions. All these problems are on the military side. You also have to take into account the problems that could be presented on the home front. A boat crew’s wives are a very close-knit group, what one knows, they all know. All it would take is for someone to go home to momma and tell her that Judy was banging Larry, even if Larry was single, and the question would arise, who else is Judy getting it on with. Once the seed of doubt it sowed, it’s hard to get rid of. The divorce rate is high enough, it doesn’t need any help. I’m not saying it wouldn’t work but question whether it’s worth it just to say there’s females on our Subs. It would take a very unique woman to fit in and just be one of the guys. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
Thanks. Lawyers all know how an eye witness can ruin a good story! Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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The Unmanned Writer |
you left out the part where the female gets mad because she "thinks" her boyfriend is going to propose when they return to home port and she wants to begin losing weight now for the potential wedding. When she expects a special diet to help lose said weight, the cooks laugh out loud at her and tell her to "eff off you idiot", she runs straight to the JAG on board and scream sexual discrimination and want to press charges for the "bad attitude about her situation." USS Stennis, 2004 cruise. Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. "If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go" Will Rogers The definition of the words we used, carry a meaning of their own... | |||
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| No double standards |
I laughed and cried at your account. It is so silly, but so realistic. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
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| No double standards |
Double the thank you. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
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| Member |
Yeah, right. I served on a Trident out of Kings Bay also and this didn't happen on either crew of my boat, nor was there any buzz on the waterfront about such a happening as what your friend described. I'm sure his and my times of service did not coincide but the people here portraying all, or the majority of, males in the Navy as homosexual really don't have anything to back their claim or implication, beyond heresay or supposition. I'm not saying male-male can't and don't happen in the Navy, or any other service for that matter - especially under the "don't ask, don't tell" policy - but, unless someone has legitimate evidence to the contrary, it isn't to the widespread degree that various posters in this thread assume. olfuzzy - excellent post on topic. From past threads I believe the majority on this board understand the pros and cons of the issue of females onboard vessels, particularly submarines, but I'm glad you took the time to write down some specifics I hadn't seen covered before. | |||
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| Do No Harm, Do Know Harm |
Lighten up, Francis  Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here. Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard. -JALLEN "All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones | |||
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| Thank you Very little |
Boom! bumper! | |||
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| Member |
I hear ya'.  | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Second officer removed for alleged improper relationship with female colleague on scandal-hit submarine
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