Bad deal. Seems to me that the officer by himself to the left should have been the only one to take a shot. But, if they haven't trained that way it may be that all 3 reached the conclusion to shoot at the same time.

18 rounds fired, 2 hit her. I wonder how many hit the perp...

Maybe a lapse in judgement in choosing to shoot but I'm fairly sure none of those officers woke up and decided to shoot a hostage that morning.

So, apparently the knife-wielding BG was LESS dangerous than the cops who couldn't shoot straight.

Many people survive gunshots with prompt medical care.

Question for those who know, do many people survive having their throat cut?

The police were faced with two lousy choices. They chose to shoot. I wish they had shot sooner before hostage was taken, but then they would be criticized for that.

Honestly, I think shooting was the right decision.

quote:

Originally posted by Sportshooter:
You’d think that at least one of the officers would have had a rifle.

Last time I mentioned that there was a armchair warrior here who jumped all over me and said I had no idea what it was like in the heat of the moment. In this particular case 2 officers had time to grab their green shotguns.

Probably should have grabbed one shotgun and one rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Many people survive gunshots with prompt medical care.

Pretty apparent they weren’t shooting for center of mass, so I’d like to also ask people who know, how often people shot in the head survive with prompt medical care?

quote:

Originally posted by mark_a:

quote:

Originally posted by Sportshooter:
You’d think that at least one of the officers would have had a rifle.

Last time I mentioned that there was a armchair warrior here who jumped all over me and said I had no idea what it was like in the heat of the moment. In this particular case 2 officers had time to grab their green shotguns.

Probably should have grabbed one shotgun and one rifle.

Does anyone know if they have rifles available?

Some departments have lots of rifles available and fielded.

Some departments have zero rifles available.

Some departments have a handful, and make it a major PITA to deploy them.

quote:

Originally posted by Bigboreshooter:
So, apparently the knife-wielding BG was LESS dangerous than the cops who couldn't shoot straight.

According to the story he'd begun to slash her throat. You would have preferred they let him finish and then shoot him?

Seems kind of an unfair position to take.

It was a very fluid event that quickly devolved in to a fairly impossible situation to resolve. If there is going to be any blame I blame the training that says concentrate on less lethal.

The pendulum has swung to far on that one in my opinion.

Crazy people are freaking dangerous.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Many people survive gunshots with prompt medical care.

Pretty apparent they weren’t shooting for center of mass, so I’d like to also ask people who know, how often people shot in the head survive with prompt medical care?

As the police weren't aiming for her head that is irrelevant.

IMHO - There was a chance that she would not be shot. There was a chance that she would survive if she were shot. There was zero chance that she would survive if her throat were cut open.

But maybe I'm wrong and having your throat cut is no big deal.

The officers tried to save her life but took it. Is it ironic? Yes. Is it tragic? Certainly. Is it the officers' fault? No.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

Does anyone know if they have rifles available?

Fair question. Looking at the LAPD website they list a ton of rifles as approved gear. 4 officers = at least 2 and probably 4 cars involved. If at least one of those cars didn't have a rifle available, or if the ROE for the rifles is too severe then that is a leadership failure.

I don't hang out in large cities very much. I only know one officer employed by Metro Nashville. I know a ton of officers in smaller departments in our immediate area. Both city and county. I fully realize this could very well be a department size or regional mindset but around here ALL of the patrol cars have rifles.

I'm fortunate enough to live in a rural enough area where the police chiefs and sheriffs are fairly easy to get to talk to. I like it that way.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

quote:

Originally posted by mark_a:

quote:

Originally posted by Sportshooter:
You’d think that at least one of the officers would have had a rifle.

Last time I mentioned that there was a armchair warrior here who jumped all over me and said I had no idea what it was like in the heat of the moment. In this particular case 2 officers had time to grab their green shotguns.

Probably should have grabbed one shotgun and one rifle.

Does anyone know if they have rifles available?

Some departments have lots of rifles available and fielded.

Some departments have zero rifles available.

Some departments have a handful, and make it a major PITA to deploy them.

I do know for SFPD, along with a full-time SWAT team, there's on regular patrol Specialist's, who have SWAT training and much of the gear (plates, helmet, AR, gas, etc..) in their vehicles. Every shift has a number of specialists on-duty to deal with in-progress incidents.

LA is incredibly spread-out, it's real hard to get tactical teams or unique assets on-scene; SWAT qualified officers I believe are authorized to carry AR's, I've seen a variety of motor-patrols with AR's on their bikes. This incident also may have developed too quickly for an rifle-armed officer to arrive in time.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Is it the officers' fault? No.

Yes. It. Is.

And this tidbit.

"It's been 13 years since an officer's gunfire has killed an innocent bystander or hostage in this department," Police Chief Michel Moore said at a news conference. "In the last six weeks, it's happened twice."

The shot was officer #1s to take and it appears he did it - the cheerleading squad fucked it all up by shooting because others be shooting.

What happens to the cops that fucked up?

Fenris, I understand the point you were trying to make, and I made my own counterpoint. Perhaps you’re right, and it was better for her to go immediate lights out from a police headshot than to bleed out in agony on the sidewalk. You bet your ass her death is the fault of at least one of those officers.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
The shot was officer #1s to take and it appears he did it - the cheerleading squad fucked it all up by shooting because others be shooting.

Pretty much my take-away from this one also.

First I would blame progressives for the culture they are imposing - shoot for the leg, talk them down, less lethal tactics (tasers, etc), and whatever.

Then the administration for catering to that shit. Then to the officers for listening to orders and not doing what’s right and for not training enough.

Protect and serve didn't seem very high up on the priority list for those scumbags.
I hope they see their victims face EVERY time they close their eyes until their last day.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
The shot was officer #1s to take and it appears he did it - the cheerleading squad fucked it all up by shooting because others be shooting.

This for sure. View one had clear head shot at reasonably close range. Officer 2 & 3 should have held fire as there was no clear shot on perp. Once officer one takes a shot things get way to unpredictable to shoot again.

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
What happens to the cops that fucked up?

LOL!
Not the same thing that would happen to you or I. We'd actually be accountable.

sad situation. The woman wasn't grabbed until a few seconds before the shooting started.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Question for those who know, do many people survive having their throat cut?

I have no idea what the general statistics are like, but there are two hockey players that are famous for having a carotid artery cut on the ice by another player's skate and surviving.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Malarchuk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Zedn%C3%ADk

No doubt, just like being shot, it depends where and how deep the cut is and how promptly and effectively aid is rendered.