There will never be an end to the "conspiracy/speculation" crowd.

It's as a flame is to moths.

But I appreciate the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
The bullet was actually found in the body, but just barely.

If additional details are reported, I’ll be very interested to learn them.

As I posted earlier, I got the impression from the video of Mr. Kirk’s being hit that the bullet may have been tumbling in flight just prior to impact. If so, that would most likely indicate that it had hit something else before striking him. Also, if so that would explain why it did not pass through his neck. In fact, for that to have happened it would have been necessary to have lost almost all of its energy before final impact.

In the realm of further speculation, I’ve also wondered from the beginning how likely it was that the killer had been able to score such a deadly hit. It was reported (perhaps assumed) that he was probably a skilled shooter based on experience with hunting. But shooting a sporter type rifle accurately from the prone with no extra support, not even a sling, is not the easiest task, and not something that someone whose only experience with guns was hunting would likely be proficient at. The apparent distance of the shot, about 140+ yards, would not be a significant challenge for an accomplished marksman, but for someone like him—?

Added: It occurs to me that the above could be taken as being my belief that the identified suspect was not the one who fired the deadly shot. That is absolutely not what I’m saying.

What I’m thinking is that the killer may have jerked the shot, the bullet hit something other than his intended target, but then the bullet was deflected and by pure chance hit Mr. Kirk. Yes, more speculation based on very flimsy evidence, but if that’s determined to have been what happened I won’t be surprised.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

Or, it was a lightly constructed bullet that came apart easily. I agree that a typical hunting bullet (Partition, Accubond, Barnes, etc) would go through the vertebrae without a problem. CK's relative bone density would be nearly meaningless.

It is inconceivable that any 0.308 caliber bullet fired from the 30-06 Springfield cartridge would have stopped in the body as reported unless it had previously lost almost all of its energy.

When I hunted prairie dogs with ~52 grain 0.224 caliber fast expanding bullets, never once did they stop in even the largest animals. They usually caused massive destructive effects.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
Or, it was a lightly constructed bullet that came apart easily. I agree that a typical hunting bullet (Partition, Accubond, Barnes, etc) would go through the vertebrae without a problem. CK's relative bone density would be nearly meaningless.

Frangible, varmint? Do they make 30-06 loads that light?

30.06 has a very wide range of bullet weights to choose from.

I also recall many crowd members remarking about the lack of report.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
There will never be an end to the "conspiracy/speculation" crowd.

It's as a flame is to moths.

But I appreciate the facts.

Yep, there are so many “experts” who come out of the woodwork with every theory you can think of.

There are lightweight 0.308 caliber bullets intended for shooting varmints. But although I’m not going to bother looking to see if there are any offered in commercial 30-06 loadings, they still wouldn’t have been stopped if traveling at full velocity.

And reports from average members of the public about things like the sounds of gunshots are all but meaningless. Even discounting that, though, the noise from firing a “varmint” load wouldn’t have been meaningfully different than firing a normal big game hunting round. What could possibly have affected the noise heard in the crowd is if the muzzle was back behind the edge of the roof, and that reduced some of the sound going down toward the crowd. That’s just speculation, though, and doesn’t matter one way or another.

If detailed information about the projectile is ever released to the public, I will bet a nickel—heck, even two—that it will turn out to be some sort of projectile suitable for hunting large game which is how guns like the murder weapon are normally used.

Well, here's one to consider: Was the KAR98 he used actually sporterized and converted to 30-06, or did he fire 30-06 ammo down an 8mm barrel? I think it was fairly common for gunsmiths to rechamber them to 8mm-06. That would certainly reduce velocity and induce tumbling. I don't know if it would achieve enough velocity or stability to accurately make it 150yds though.

Good lord guys, really?

Oh gee was it .30 down 8mm.. Really? Fucks sake.

A man was killed for his opinion. Who cares about ballistics, you dicks.

If you want to talk forensics, ask the boss if you can make a separate thread.

Ok, we all love Charlie here, I’ll wager. But, when I read about the surgeon who claimed he was so healthy that his impressive bone density stopped the bullet and likely saved others’ lives, it’s a “miracle”, “man of steel”, I had to shake my damn head. Pure sensationalism bullshit. I’m surprised he didn’t predict Charlie rising from the dead.

That’s an interesting question, but the recovered rifle does not appear to be a converted military 98K. Modern Mauser rifles are available in many common chamberings.*

The earliest reports about the rifle mentioned it was chambered for 30-06, which would normally have been based on barrel markings. It’s not impossible that it was based on just the cartridges themselves, but that seems unlikely, although not as unlikely as a 0.308 bullet fired from a (nominal) 8mm bore hitting anywhere close to where it was aimed.

* https://www.eurooptic.com/maus...jO9ppgFdD5Tj_BATViql

We will hear if the subject of ballistics is inappropriate to discuss, but evidently it’s not inappropriate to reference the bizarre conspiracy theories that have already sprouted all over the ’net. And as was demonstrated by another famous assassination 60+ years ago, questions relating to ballistics can fuel many conspiracy claims. I predict that when (if) information about the projectile is released to the public, once again similar questions and claims will be the result.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Ok, we all love Charlie here, I’ll wager. But, when I read about the surgeon who claimed he was so healthy that his impressive bone density stopped the bullet and likely saved others’ lives, it’s a “miracle”, “man of steel”, I had to shake my damn head. Pure sensationalism bullshit. I’m surprised he didn’t predict Charlie rising from the dead.

Yeah, I don't believe any of that. Super derpy.

Should there be an equipment and ballistics discussion? Sure. But... Now? what is wrong with you guys

Mind telling everyone which topics are ok, and which are not, to discuss? Calling fellow members dicks is not how you persuade them one way or another.

I'm only here with my opinion. I'll call people dicks if I like, and in this case I'm fucking right. Too soon. You're free to disagree, I have no power. Except my reputation. Take it or leave it. I'll take my time in the woodshed for every last word I say on this fucking board.

30-06 can and has used saboted 55 grain .223 bullets. But they are uncommon.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
I'm only here with my opinion. I'll call people dicks if I like, and in this case I'm fucking right. Too soon. You're free to disagree, I have no power. Except my reputation. Take it or leave it. I'll take my time in the woodshed for every last word I say on this fucking board.

LMAO. Charlie Kirk would have been proud of you………Not bloody likely.

I think it's fair to have questions; it's another thing to engage in speculations and spread them.

One of the first speculations I saw was about the guy to the side of CK touching the brim of his cap and then running his hand up along his other arm. And whoever made the video put up next to the man a drawing of a man in fatigues mirroring the same gesture as if that confirmed whatever conspiracy he was portraying. The ridiculousness and shallowness of it is unbelievable. The guy turns out to be a pastor who has been mentoring CK on bible apologetics.

There's another video of a man who is seen taking the video cards from the cameras, especially the one behind CK. It was a Turning Point person and when asked, he said because people are evil and he wanted to make sure the videos were safeguarded and that no one could steal them. They have since turned them over to the FBI.

I have wondered about the exit wound. But I've always been able to operate at work with a lot of missing or fuzzy information TBD. I don't have a need to have the details filled in or to make up some working theory.

We can have questions and file them away. As we come across potential answers, we can weigh them and file them away. But it does no one any good by spreading unconfirmed theories as the gospel truth. I've had to talk people away from running wild with the idea that CK was assassinated by Israel because he was raising questions about the Qatar strike. CK has voiced that he had questions but, at the same time, he was firm in wanting Israel to win.

I saw a video of CK explaining his two most important sayings or words of wisdom. The biblical one was Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." CK explains that verse puts in context all the failures and setbacks that may happen to a believer in Christ. That everything is going to be okay.

The other one which was non-biblical was "This too shall pass." He says it transcends all situations. In times of triumph, it keeps you humble knowing it's only temporary and in times of despair, it gives you hope tomorrow will be better.

Those were his last words at a restaurant entrepreneurs' conference just hours before he was assassinated.

"All things work together for good to those who love God."

"This too shall pass."